Unless we admit we lost the war, the bad news can only get worse. There are different degrees of defeat. Delaying signing a peace treaty could mean US troops leaving from on top of the US embassy (like in Vietnam) or even a total collapse far worse than the collapse of the Soviet Union after it bankrupted itself partly by the Afghanistan War. General Stanley McChrystal’s grim blunt assessment that we would lose unless he got 40,000 new troops in a hurry in order to starve off a relatively quick defeat, in no way expressed any optimism that we would win in the end even with more troops. I would like to reinterpret his statement as implying that we should leave rather quickly rather than face a possibility of a last minute panicky retreat like in Vietnam.
Actually there is still a window of possibility for a quick hollow victory in Afghanistan where the Taliban agrees in the future to hand over any al Qaeda leaders for trial to any international court that requests, in exchange for a quick US withdraw.
There is very little chance for the divided leadership of the Taliban to actually comply with such an agreement or for an al Qaeda leader to allow himself to be taken into Taliban custody. But this would prevent al Qaeda from cheering that a relatively few al Qaeda suicide bombers chased America out of Afghanistan. However people like Dick Cheney would argue that we really lost to al Qaeda and help al Qaeda crow a little.
A similar scenario actually happened once before, but no Democrat, or Bush-hater, sabotaged not allowing al Qaeda to cheer. Bin Laden originally vowed to drive US troops out of Saudi Arabia, It was his main claim for 9/11. In 2003, George Bush withdrew US troops, from Saudi territory and if 9/11 never happened US troops possibly could be still on Sacred Muslim territory. Western infidels in Mecca, in bin Laden’s mind, was the biggest affront to Islam in what he sees as a 1000-year-old war between Islam and the West. When US troops began leaving Saudi Arabia, private contractors moved in. Al Qaeda smelling what they thought was a trick that US troops would stay in Afghanistan disguised as private businessmen and private contractors. Al Qaeda attacked the private contractors. This scared most Saudis who previously had mixed feelings toward al Qaeda. Saudis rely a lot on non-Muslim servants. Muslim servants are supposed to follow the same customs Saudis do like to pray five times a day. It could be a little awkward for a Muslim servant to watch them do such things as skip prayers, or on the other hand for Saudi’s not to frown a little if a Muslim servant had overlooked them. In many little ways, and some major ones, not being able to hire non-Muslim servants would drastically change the Saudi way of life. Attacking contractors made al Qaeda very unpopular in their country. However, if back then when US troops left Democrats would have yelled, “Bin Laden won!”, like Cheney would do today, al Qaeda could have crowed a little about victory.
Obama preformed close to miracle in Iraq, US troops left the cities under the condition that they wouldn’t return unless ethnic strife or a government request brought them back in. Remember all the warnings during the Bush administration that the bloodbath between Sunnis and Shiites would become extremely intense, unless the US were kept in-between them.
Now, thanks to Obama, the Shiites are ignoring highly provocative al Qaeda suicide attacks because they would rather US troops stay out then to randomly get even with Sunnis in tit-for-tat ethnic strife.
If the US continues to waste vast sums on ever more expensive smart weapons, like drone airplanes, until the dollar collapses, and since most Americans are far away from food sources we will be fighting with each other over food here at home rather than the US fighting a war abroad. The usual way a war ends is that of a signed peace agreement. This is much preferable to a hasty last minute withdrawal. The Taliban doesn’t want to see Afghans continuing to die, they are willing to try to make at least small compromises in exchange for peace.
Sometimes a military defeat is attempted to be covered over by a political event. Hitler didn’t seize southern France during World War II, the Vichy government took power. I contend that if moderates like Arlen Specter continue to be kicked out of the Republican Party until the next US administration is proud of torture and human rights infringement like Cheney and the constant escalation of the war advocates at the Washington Times want, it would be a defeat of the US Republic. Sun Myung Moon who founded the Washington Times believes in what he calls “Godism” not democracy, all major decisions made by a central higher authority. Some of those who work at the Washington Times may also go further than Cheney’s belief that sometimes human rights and Democracy gets in the way of what needs to be done. I contend that many who shrilly advocate sending more troops to Afghanistan aren’t concerned about Afghanistan but in using the war to disrupt the domestic progressive agenda. They far more interested in change in this country than worrying about change in Afghanistan.
Let’s back up a moment. Why is it the US’s responsibility to stop al Qaeda when al Qaeda also made horrible attacks in Spain and Britain? To discombobulate Bush’s plans for a coalition government in Iraq, al Qaeda blew up Shiite sacred sites which got many thousands of Shiites and Sunnis to kill each other in tit-for-tat violence. This is something many Shiite Muslims in Iran and other Muslims hate him for. If the US wasn’t so egocentric we would realize that purposely creating widespread ethnic strife was a greater crime than 9/11.
Even Saudi Arabia would fight to keep al Qaeda from becoming in charge. The Soviet Union fought militant Muslims in Afghanistan and Chechnya. Unfortunately for them at the time, they did manage to inadvertently convince Muslims around the world that Russia was their enemy, much more that George Bush who constantly insisted that moderates like the King of Jordan was US’s friend. Russia would never allow a militant like bin Laden to take charge of much of the world, especially Muslim areas near Russia, or take charge of Pakistani nukes. Also, al Qaeda made it clear that if the US actually withdrew from Afghanistan they would be attacking China in a big way, already looking for a fight with China over suppression of Muslim separatists in Uighur. Time Magazine referred to an Oct 7th al Qaeda statement threatening China that I think is urgent for both US doves and hawks to contemplate,
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1929388,00.html/
Unfortunately the information covered by Time Magazine didn’t get central coverage elsewhere in the media.
During both world wars the US government’s only central purpose was to win. This held true in Korea as well. But Lyndon Johnson also wanted his Great Society programs, and Obama wants health care reform. US soldiers want to protect their buddies much more than any burning desire to win. If the central purpose of US foreign policy was to defeat al Qaeda, we would let Iran get the weapons it wants in return for attacking al Qaeda, something due to their hate of what al Qaeda did to Shiite holy sites they already would have done if not tension between the US and Iran and Israel and Iran hadn’t gotten in the way. This is the kind of policy that the US had during World War two when even Stalin was considered US’s friend.
There is no way we can win against an enemy that envisions a permanent warring class, without making stopping al Qaeda the overwhelming focus of US foreign and domestic policy. No American believes that al Qaeda would be in charge of the world if we don’t take leadership like most did against Hitler and the Soviet Union. Al Qaeda attacked on 9/11 because it wanted US troops out of Saudi Arabia and feared the then slow march toward victory of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan would have been both a psychological and physical blow to extremism, while temporary control of Afghanistan by the US would only be a physical, not psychological, setback.
Actually like everyone else I really don’t have the answers, but let’s lobby Obama in the spirit of trying to get him to do a better job, rather than join those who think criticizing Obama on war is a good way to sabotage Obama and the general progressive agenda.
During Vietnam the theme of the antiwar movement was that “Vietnam was not our enemy” which fit in with the fact that Vietnam never had any plans for the US. Today the theme should be we have no business deciding to be in charge of fighting al Qaeda while paying little attention to what they are all about. I wish I could convey the danger I see in belittling the al Qaeda threat by not only the antiwar movement but ordinary Americans tired of a far away conflict.
Bin Laden’s dream of a permanent Muslim warring class is grim news for the world, including much of the Muslim World. But unlike with Hitler stopping al Qaeda is in no way dependent on US resolve. The antiwar movement should stop risking being a tool of those who are investing their future political clout in the hope that al Qaeda will have another 9/11 some day. Remember Al Qaeda attacked Spain when the antiwar movement there was strong and Britain when Tony Blair was in danger of losing his party’s support, and could only threaten to attack the German Beer fest when Germans wanted to leave Afghanistan, but just the threat had an effect of the German election outcome. But unless we are willing to give up all other domestic and foreign policy in an effort to stop al Qaeda, such as arming Iran who was hurt the most by an al Qaeda attack of Shiite holy sites, we have no business trying to be in charge while are eyes and ears are focused elsewhere. Where there is emotional commitment some want to use anger against bin Laden to spread to anger at Hamas and Hezbollah, others to anger at all religious people who oppose womans rights or gay rights, or anyone who is more than a Sunday Christian. Others just hoping the war ends the progressive social agenda.
I don’t like the way today’s antiwar movement is copying the Vietnam precedent by claiming that al Qaeda is not a problem for us. Let’s reinterpreted General Stanley McChrystal’s grim assessment as meaning that it is likely that any kind of US policy toward sustained change in Afghanistan might not work almost no matter what we do. Reinterpreting General McChrystal’s statements as reason to get out might actually bring and earlier end to the war.
RichardKanePA.blogspot.com
RichardKanePA





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My 2 crappy cents.. FWIW..
On the surface, Gates doesn’t want to hand AQ a win to use as propaganda. No General wants to go home without their man parts, but egos are only one part of this war. The other parts are not part of the discussion in the MSM. The Taliban and Al Queda are the catch all boogey man categories for groups that resists empire I’m afraid. The failure to differentiate just simplifies the discussions and leads to the wrong conclusions when they are more complex.
Our situation is not like any other we have ever been in so analogies don’t really fit anymore. There is an undeclared war going between India and Pakistan for the Kashmir region, which is 90% muslim. India is keeping a military force there, and they are quite brutal. Even in india proper, Muslims suffer discrimination and have a living standard even below the Dalits. Even though Pakistan is mostly muslim, Kashmiri’s still want to be be self governing. This adds a whole new level to the “Great Game” that is being played there. We may be trying to destablize Pakistan as well, possibly to get a hold of their nukes, No one is sure what attacks in Pakistan are false flags either by RAW, a new Indian COIN group trained by Israelis (Gurkas are already fierce fighters) or by Afghan warlords we are paying to commit terror attacks inside Pakistan. We are also building another superbase in Pakistan. We practically shoved money down their throats the other day, against the protests of their public and military, not to mention Blackwater is there stirring up a bunch of trouble with the citizenry.
The Nabucco pipeline is the biggest prize in East Asia though for the US but that gamble is not looking so good very good as a payout right now. In all honesty, what drives the US more than money? It sure isn’t caring about humanity.
I do agree that the policies that were used against Afghans have fanned the flames of extremism and bombing them only increases the hatred.
Pepe Escobar on Pipelineistan
longwarjournal.org
What is your source for all this? This is synthesis. You make some extreme judgements about what you believe to be going through these peoples heads.
What if the House of Saud wanted Bin Ladin out because he was a threat to their rule? Poppy Bush trained his gurards to protect against a threat to their authority, specifically.
Bin Ladin never claimed responsibility for 9/11. He empathized with it.
I and others want to praise Obama’s efforts toward making peace with Russia, stopping NATO expansion etc. But if we are not careful when we condemn the war we are helping those who condemn all the good things Obama does.
I imagine that my efforts might actually reach US officials to change US Afghan policy. Those, who call US officials evil or stupid, won’t help administrative officials to want to stop the war and thus save the domestic agenda.
Shekissesfrogs, I don’t speak Arabic. So maybe it is possible that I wasn’t really watching a video of bin Laden saying only the head suicide pilot knew what the target on 9/11 was, but I think otherwise.
Plenty of Muslims who speak Arabic think bin Laden is a disaster for the world.
Your diary was full of partial truths and outright lies. If the fake bin Laden in that video is your evidence..go tell the FBI. They know it is a fake, why don’t you? The reason for 911 was America’s support of Israel. The pages of testimony regarding Israel and Saudi Arabia were removed from the final 911 report. bin Ladin..the x-CIA Tim Osman..has been dead since Dec 2001. Stop digging him up like the government repeatedly does as a justification for their fake war on terror.
“September 28, 2001: Bin Laden Again Denies Involvement in 9/11 Attacks
Edit event
Bin Laden says in an interview, “I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States (see September 16, 2001). As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other human beings as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of battle.… The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the US system but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology can survive. They may be anyone, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia. In the US itself, there are dozens of well-organized and well-equipped groups capable of causing large-scale destruction. Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who have been annoyed with President Bush ever since the Florida elections and who want to avenge him.… Then there are intelligence agencies in the US, which require billions of dollars worth of funds from Congress and the government every year.… They needed an enemy.… Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked who carried out the attacks.” [Daily Ummat (Karachi), 9/28/2001] ”
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a092801osamadenial
“Osama bin Laden, the exiled Saudi multimillionaire considered by the United States to be the prime suspect for the 9/11 attacks, issues a statement through the Arabic satellite television channel Al Jazeera, in which he denies responsibility for those attacks. [CNN, 9/17/2001; Washington Post, 9/17/2001] In the statement, which is read out by an Al Jazeera announcer, bin Laden says: “The US government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders’ rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations.” The statement is signed “Sheik Osama bin Laden.” [Associated Press, 9/16/2001; CNN, 9/17/2001] President Bush dismisses bin Laden’s denial. Asked whether he believes it, Bush responds: “No question he is the prime suspect. No question about that.” [White House, 9/16/2001; Baltimore Sun, 9/17/2001] Vice President Dick Cheney says he has “no doubt that [bin Laden] and his organization played a significant role” in the 9/11 attacks. [NBC, 9/16/2001; Washington Post, 9/17/2001] On this day, bin Laden also faxes a statement to the Afghan Islamic Press (AIP) agency, in which he denies responsibility for the 9/11 attacks (see September 16, 2001). [Guardian, 9/17/2001] Previously, on September 12, he denied any involvement, according to a close aide of his (see September 12, 2001). [Associated Press, 9/13/2001] On September 13, Afghanistan’s ruling Taliban said bin Laden told them he had played no role in the attacks (see September 13, 2001). [Reuters, 9/13/2001] But in mid-December 2001, the Pentagon will release a video which apparently shows bin Laden indicating his complicity (see Mid-November 2001). [BBC, 12/14/2001; Fox News, 12/14/2001] However, there will be questions about the authenticity of this film (see December 13, 2001). [Guardian, 12/15/2001] ”
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a092801osamadenial
“On the day of December 13, 2001, the U.S. government released a so-called authentic videotape of Osama Bin Laden confessing to being responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. However, after examining the entire video, it has one major flaw: The man confessing in the video isn’t Osama Bin Laden.”
http://911truth.tripod.com/osama.html
“Unless we admit we lost the war, the bad news can only get worse. There are different degrees of defeat.”
I don’t think losing and winning are appropriate terms to describe the war in Afghanistan. What’s losing? What’s winning? It’s all bullshit. We are killing people daily, others are killing people daily. Nevermind winning/losing just stop killing people. Act only in self-defense. Stop being fucking monsters!
Who was responsible for the Madrid backpack bombings which coincidentally was at the right moment to affect an upcoming election, and why did some suspects commit suicide by blowing themselves up also killing a police officer when about to be arrested? Who was responsible for the London subway bombings? Why were two US embassies in Africa attacked while the busy street in front was filled with rush hour commuters? Why before 911, in Afghanistan, did a cameraman interview a Northern Alliance leader then blow himself up taking the leader with him. Most of all who blew up the Sunni golden mosque causing a tit-tat-bloodbath and causing millions on both sides to flee their homes.
I suspect a factor in 911 is that Cheney and some Israel counterpart wanted a wake up call to happen. But this doesn’t mean that suicide bombing won’t inspire desperate people who look at what happened when nonviolent monks attempted peaceful change in Burma. There will be a lot more Columbine massacres if the US gets out of Afghanistan in such a way that bin Laden has a lot to cheer about. Of course endless war until bankruptcy is no solution.
RichardKanePA RichardKanePA.blogspot.com
We lost the Afghan war, the day before we decide to go in.
We are complete fools because we fell for our politicains using our military as political tools. The Military’s sworn job is to protect the United States of America. It is not to chase terrorists that is the job of law enforcement. It is not to invade and try to nation build, or remake nations to our liking.
I’m not saying that if we know where the terrorists are that it shouldn’t blow their asses away, but it shouldn’t invade countries to get them.
The problems in Both Iraq and Afhganistan are the same, we couldn’t control their borders any better than we can control our own. To this day our troops are dying because the bad guys can just walk into these countries and kill our guy’s, then cross back accross the borders to regroup and attack again.
Our Military has totally blown both wars, by not controlling the countries. We let the bad guys in then have to fight them.
We keep trying to remake the world, and while were concentrating on one or two places the rest is turning to shit. We don’t have the power, money, or time it would take to change mankind, that’s what all those nations are made of. Name one country or government that isn’t filled with corruption, including our own. We start, support, and aid governments so they can become corrupt even if they weren’t before.