Ari, this is OT but after watching this and reading the report, I’m more than willing to kick a guy when he’s down. As a Vietnam Era vet, I’m outraged about this and have seen NOTHING elsewhere about it.

Report: McCain Suppressed Info on Fellow Vietnam POWs Left Behind

http://www.nationinstitute.org…..9182008pt1 —full story

And besides McCain, this is especially reprehensible: “In other words, every national security adviser, from Nixon on—this has gone across seven presidencies. Every president, every national security adviser, every secretary of state probably knows about this.”

go have a read and see the youtube on my diary

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/954/

hard to believe what’s being said in that youtube

ari, this is a great post, I hope the media does some follow up

I want her on record saying the bombing of abortion clinics is terrorism

that would get some distance between her and some of her base

I’m out of posts for the day and I need to post this today so I’m doing it in comments, it seems on topic to this post a smidge so here it is;

You’ll get a kick out of this, even the wing nuts are going after Palin!

I suppose if they wanted to blame someone for McCain’s failure they would blame the new b

To clarify, so you support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants?I do because I understand why people would want to be in America. To seek the safety and prosperity, the opportunities, the health that is here. It is so important that yes, people follow the rules so that people can be treated equally and fairly in this country.

So people should follow the rules, unless they don’t, in which case they will become citizens…but it’s not amnesty! … I have given up trying to understand what Palinites see in their favorite candidate. If this does not drive home how malleable and unacquainted with the relevant policy options she is, I’m not sure what would.

and you’ll get a kick out from the palinites who respond to the post, here’s a taste;

In this case, the incoherence is in the policy, not in the messenger.

check out what the corner has to say;

What Palin’s response shows is that, first, she’s completely open to whatever kool-aid they want her to drink — i.e., she has no innate resistance to amnesty for illegals that would cause her to look for less-unappealing ways of saying what the campaign wants her to say. And second, it shows what the campaign is telling her about McCain’s views on the issue — if McCain’s talk of “border security first” were anything but boob bait for Bubba, his operatives would have made it clear that Palin was supposed to include that in her discussion of immigration, but she didn’t even make a passing reference to it.

they do not like them their palin no more

hey Sarah did ya give ole Brian a peak with that BASIC INSTINCT hemline?

The innocents are the aborted that she was hoping to convert to warriors to slaughter innocents in her war of choice, should she get the chance.. Simple minded explanation.

Didn’t McCain’s pal G Gordon Liddy suggest shooting for the head at ATF agents?

OT

Pre-trading on the Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell by so much that pre-market trading was halted.

The New York Stocks Exchange halts trading for limited amounts of time when losses reach pre-set levels– a 10 percent in most cases.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..id=topnews

I want to know how Sarah feels about Tim McVeigh

Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was a United States Army veteran and security guard who bombed the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City on the second anniversary of the Waco Siege, as revenge against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government. The bombing killed 168 people, and was the deadliest act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks.

He was convicted of 11 federal offenses, and was sentenced to death and executed for the April 19, 1995 bombing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

Arrrgh Brain Bleach!

Sarah can’t answer a simple question directly it seems that might cause her to doubt her own talking points.
So she pretends to answer with her talking points and the MSM lets her.
Let KO or Rachel handle the next interview.
Straight Talk Express sheesh Talking Points Express is more like it.

You’ve never heard of this? Try Ted Sampley and the Vietnam Vets Against Mc Cain. It’s bullshit and, as I have argued her over and over, a waste of time. Mc Cain has done plenty of things worth going after, this ain’t one of them.

I want to know how Sarah feels about Tim McVeigh

“White men, by definition, cannot be terrorists.”

“Unless they’re at least kind of brown.”

“Except for William Ayres of course, at least until this campaign is over.”

“Next question, Brian?”

I wonder if Sarah thinks the people at her rallies who shout that they want Obama dead are terrorists?
John McCain said that people at Obama rallies say bad things too!
Well where is the tape John? You don’t go to Obama rallies so you must have seen it on tape.
Where is the tape!

Bill Ayers killed how many people?

Is an abortion clinic bomber a terrorist under the definition?

At least she didn’t say “In what respect, Brian?” Whadda quick study. She’s learnin’.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, Mrs. Palin.

0

So all he did was blow stuff up? Sorry that does not place him in the same league as Ossama he is a political Vandal at best.

I thought he just plotted to blow shit up?

A lot of people hear the word terrorist and they assume that Bill Ayers killed people.
The MSM could clear that up quite easily…but they haven’t.
Political Vandal is the word they should use or idiot who’s friends played with explosives and is lucky to be alive.
I think ending the war was a good cause but not the method.

It seems he did blow stuff up just not people.

(The statue was rebuilt and unveiled on May 4, 1970, and blown up again by other Weathermen on October 6, 1970.[12][11] Rebuilding it yet again, the city posted a 24-hour police guard to prevent another blast.[11]) Ayers participated in the Days of Rage riot in Chicago in October 1969, and in December was at the “War Council” meeting in Flint, Michigan. Larry Grathwohl, an FBI informant in the Weatherman group from the fall of 1969 to the spring of 1970, thought that “Ayers, along with Bernardine Dohrn, probably had the most authority within the Weatherman”.[13]

Years underground
Bill Ayers’ booking photo taken in 1968 by the Chicago Police Dept.
Bill Ayers’ booking photo taken in 1968 by the Chicago Police Dept.

In 1970 he “went underground” with several associates after the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, in which Weatherman member Ted Gold, Ayers’ close friend Terry Robbins, and Ayers’ girlfriend, Diana Oughton, were killed when a nail bomb (an anti-personnel device) they were assembling exploded. Kathy Boudin and Cathy Wilkerson survived the blast. Ayers was not facing criminal charges at the time, but the federal government later filed charges against him.[3] Ayers participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and The Pentagon in 1972, as he noted in his 2001 book, Fugitive Days. Because of a water leak caused by the Pentagon bombing, aerial bombardments during the Vietnam War had to be halted for several days. Ayers writes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

His friends died though making a bomb.

you could’ve just answered “You Betcha!” and we wouldn’t need to have this discussion

she could’ve just answered, I mean

There was a lot of “civil disobedience” going on at that time, as I remember it. Maybe that’s what Ayres actions could be called. Ayres certainly wasn’t as famous as any of the Chicago Seven! Didn’t Carter order amnesty for a lot of people with very little differences from Ayres. People like Abbie Hoffman!

I say a good citizenship award within the last year means he’s seen as rehabilitated, which is exactly what the prosecutor recently stated in his recent op-ed. It may be time to start calling McShame and Palin on their deliberate misleading of the public because they’ll both say anything to get elected.

Ha!

He should be given credit for killing terrorists then!

-G

Agreed

I’d like to make the basic question much more specific. I’d put it like this…

In our Federal Super-Max prison in Florence CO, Erik Rudolph is serving several life sentences without parole for the 1996 Olympic Bombing, Bombing a Gay Night Club in Atlanta, and bombing two abortion clinics, one in Atlanta, one in Birmingham. In the Atlanta clinic bombing, two bombs were used, with the intent to seriously injure and kill police called to investigate the first bomb. Rudolph negotiated these sentences in order to avoid trial that might have resulted in his receiving a death sentence.

In the same prison in Florence CO, the participants in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center are also serving life without parole sentences, having stood trial in New York, found guilty, but not given the death sentence by the trial jury. Six persons died in the WTC 1993 bombing, and several hundred were injured, most were injured leaving the smoke filled buildings, including police and fire-rescue personnel.

Was Justice done in both of these cases? Do you believe either set of cases would ever deserve consideration for a Presidential Pardon or communtation? Which one and why?

Every time I hear her, it’s like having to grade essay tests by studients who slept through every class. I can’t imagine the torture of having to listen to her for four years. “Bill Ayers, by his own admittance..”

how did property damage become an act of terrorism in this country?

It was a simple answer. She was saying that people who don’t agree with her are terrorists, and especially if they can be tied vaguely to Obama.

Seriously, I had this argument with a Repug a few weeks ago. I said that Timothy McViegh was a terrorist and the response was different that 911. He said that was different because that was just a couple people who blew up the building. I said, the 911 attacks were just 20 people, and you couldn’t condemn all muslims, or the entire Middle East because of that. He said they were different because Islam had declared war on other religions and he challenged me to name one instance when a Christian nation had attacked another nation for religious reasons. And, of course, I answered that we had, under W. and his war, brought to you by God speaking to him. He was outraged, but outnumbered because I live in NY and the other people there were all in agreement.

Anyway, my point is, they don’t see US terrorists as terrorists in the same way as they see Islamic terrorists and I would suspect that they wouldn’t be calling Ayers a terrorist if it wasn’t convenient for their argument. Because they are just spouting racial hatred and lies.

that’s a GREAT point selise, the question should have gone;

“ayers damage was to property, abortion attacks are to individuals, which of those fit the definition of terrorism more”?

her head would explode

It was a simple answer. She was saying that people who don’t agree with her are terrorists

nor are they “real Americans”, if they don’t agree with her they are “fake”

The Crusades might have been another good example

he challenged me to name one instance when a Christian nation had attacked another nation for religious reasons

I suppose he never heard of the crusades then?

ugg, you beat me to it

see y’all – off to work

crusades

Launched by Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont in 1095, the First Crusade was the most successful. Urban gave a dramatic speech urging Christians to swarm towards Jerusalem and make it safe for Christian pilgrims by taking it away from the Muslims. Jerusalem had no natural resources which Europeans needed; instead, it’s “holiness” meant that Christians needed to control it rather than infidel Muslims. It should be little wonder, then, that secular critics of religion focus so much on the Crusades as a prime example of what’s wrong with religion and why religion can be so dangerous.

He meant recently.

There were about 3200 Lynchings between 1880 and 1930. The intent most historians who have reviewed the evidence conclude, was to terrorize Black People and thus retain political and social control of the South. No participant in a lynching was ever arrested or tried for murder (or anything else) even though many lynchings were photographed, with the pictures published widely in papers and on post cards.

Nazi Germany was ostensibly a Christian nation, as was fascist Italy. And, does the Thirty Years War count? That war was all about whose version of “love thy neighbor as thyself” was superior.

By her own definition (”would seek to destroy our United States Capitol and our Pentagon and would seek to destroy innocent Americans”), Timothy McVeigh would not be a domestic terrorist. He did not bomb the Pentagon or our U.S. Capitol, although he did destroy innocent Americans. She uses the word “and”, not “or” or “and/or”, so I’m assuming that ALL three qualifications have to be met in order to be a domestic terrorist — Capitol, Pentagon, innocent Americans. But if you assume just the act of harming innocent Americans is enough to qualify as a domestic terrorist, then you have to infer from her hesitancy to answer that Palin believes abortion clinic doctors are NOT innocent Americans and that’s why she won’t call an abortion clinic bomber a domestic terrorist. Which in turn, implies a certain sympathy with abortion clinic bombers. Sarah Palin is a very dangerous woman.

It’s NOT just McCain (that’s who I meant by ‘kicking when down’ BUT the whole damn establishment that has ignored these vets. I am aware of how the U.S. government from the time of the Revolutionary War has spit on those willing to give their lives for a cause but I never came across a story that laid out how such occurred over so many Congress’s and Administrations.

Thanks Perris; The reporter that was interviewed on DemocracyNOw and wrote the NationsInstitute report is a Pulitzer Prize winner and I tend to trust the ‘due diligence’ he has done on this story. As I wrote Raven, its not just McCAin that has me outraged but the fact that so many Congress’s and Administrations have just washed their hands of these vets.

By her own definition (”would seek to destroy our United States Capitol and our Pentagon and would seek to destroy innocent Americans”), Timothy McVeigh would not be a domestic terrorist. He did not bomb the Pentagon or our U.S. Capitol, although he did destroy innocent Americans.

But he chose the Murrah Building because it had a federal office in it! Per Wiki:

The Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was a United States Federal Government complex located at 200 N.W. 5th Street in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. The Murrah building was the target of the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995.

follow up question: what do you call the participants in the boston tea party? patriots, terrorists or something else?

One country’s terrorist is its enemy’s freedom fighter.

oh, but Jane, I thought there was no such thing as terrorists? Only `militants’. If you don’t consider the Islamic fascists who killed 3,000 people in one day as terrorits, how can you consider those who have killed 14 (according to Naral) since 1993 (none since 1998, btw) as `terrorists’?

Just who is `sick’ then, Jane?

Palin is very adept at leaving an impression by speaking in such vague terms that she can come back later and say “Oh, but that’s not what I meant. I was misrepresented by the media.”

Good to point out how careful she is to say “innocent Americans.” Abortion opponents talk constantly about how abortion doctors take “innocent lives” – it’s part of their lexicon. She knew exactly what she was saying: enough to reassure her friends, not enough to be completely vulnerable to her enemies.

Nice of Williams to point out the hypocrisy in her statement.