I am Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4gymxY2zM8

[modnote: to post a YouTube video, just paste the embed code in the body of your "Body" box.]

Powerfully sophomoric.

And so is your reasoning in calling this video sophomoric. There is nothing in the video that is not a fact.
If the world had responded properly to Hitler’s genocide when they -and the U.S. had intelligence reports regarding it-became aware of it, the collective guilt that was assuaged by granting a ‘jewish homeland’ would never had needed assuaging.
And ,of course, if the U.S. had supported the International Brigades WWII might never have happened.

This one is good, too..
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“Israeli Confessions”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6edg7OjLyw

I didn’t watch too much of the video, as I’ve seen it before, but when it’s announced that the present-day Palestinians are people who’ve been living there for thousands of years, I think that maybe there is stuff there that isn’t fact.

Beyond that, even if every bit of this crap were fact it wouldn’t add up to truth. For each and every claim this thing makes, I’m pretty sure that there’s an equal counterclaim.

When you take a pile of partial truths and exclude the inconvenient ones, it’s propaganda.

“I think that maybe there is stuff there that isn’t fact.”; and the idea that god gave jews that land in perpetuity is considered a ‘fact’?

Feel fortunate that Islam has schisms in it, otherwise ‘Israel’ would cease to exist.

As their prophets indicate, “not a flood but the fire next time” and that will be the end of Israel(and many other parts of what is called the ‘mideast’.).

Why would I think that God gave Israel to the Jews and why would that change anything about this film being bullshit propaganda?
The very clear fact that Israel produces bullshit doesn’t change, or obviate, Palestinian bullshit.

It’s not what you think but what the Israeli’s think. And one person’s ‘propaganda’ is another’s fact; in this case the film is NOT propaganda but a recitation of history.
BTW, have you joined J Street yet?

Another view of the “conflict” in the ME.

This is not an endorsement of the piece, just sharing something I found a while ago.

Would the thousands of years back be the Phoenicians .

So Macman be specific what else do you feel is “bullshit” in this clip?

Have you stopped beating your horse yet? Give me no J Street bullshit, ubet.
What difference does the Israeli POV have to do with this film being bullshit, plain and simple? If the Israelis agree or disagree, if the whole of France agrees or disagrees, if idiots in other universes can be made to believe, the stuff is still a misrepresentation.

Canaanites according to local folktales.

I think I stopped watching when the shit on the screen was bsing that the Israelis went to war in ‘67 to gobble up more of the ancestral lands blah, blah, blah.
Nothing about the lead-in to the war, nothing real at all.
You just can’t broadcast a kindergarten story and expect to be taken seriously except by people who are wholly ignorant.

Code pinker confronts Netanyahu
http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?id=5171

“During his talk, PM Netanyahu lauded the Israeli Defense Forces, saying the Israeli army was “as moral as any army on earth” and thanked both President Obama and the U.S. Congress for rejecting the Goldstone report. “It is appalling to us, as peace activists, that Israel committed such atrocities against the people of Gaza and that the U.S. Government is trying to cover up those crimes. As defenders of human rights, we must stand up and demand accountability,” stated Potts.”

Netanyahu is (I will borrow Macmans word) full of bullshit

You do know that Israel attacked first in the 67 war. Or is that “bullshit” too?

Leen, you know that Egypt massed troops along the Sinai and told the UN peacekeepers to haul ass out of there, right?
You know that the Syrians had been massing up north also, right?
You know that there was intercepted communications between Egypt and Syria plainly saying that they were going to attack, right?

And it for sure as shit wasn’t about gobbling up Palestinian land when it started as this idiot film implies, was it?

The Israelis attacked first, absolutely. That’s not at all the same as starting the war.

“Make the Lie Big

“make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it and eventually they will believe it” – the Israeli version

guess who the original quote came from! ”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1xN_ZSB898&feature=related

Excellent!

“The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over.”
– Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

“Irak has weapons of mass destruction.” – American version

Your link..the video..perfect match..’g’

The website that produced that video and others.

http://www.youtube.com/user/neverbeforecampaign

And what Israeli are you quoting, bluebuttefly?

Mac..did you not watch the video? The Israeli leaders spoke for themselves.
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“Israeli Confessions”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6edg7OjLyw

Here come the apologists.

“We’re the victims.”

“We want peace.”

Horseshit. What the Israeli govt (read Likud and their ultra reich supporters) want is an Arab-free Israel that stretches from the Jordan River to the Med.

You are ridiculous and continue to be in denial. You must also know that the UN and the International world court have determined that the wall is illegal as well as the settlements. You might also like to try to deny that Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country. Well I think the U.s. is in the running for that number one spot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3879057.stm

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=11292&Cr=palestin&Cr1

Israel in violation of UN resolutions
http://www.mediamonitors.net/michaelsladah&suleimaniajlouni1.html
“Accountability and our nation’s credibility require that Israel be forced to comply with international law, especially if the United States continues to press its case against Iraq.

During the period between 1967 and 2000, Iraq was the subject of 69 Security Council resolutions. By comparison, Israel, our closest “ally” in the Middle East, has been the subject of 138 resolutions. Not surprisingly, most of those resolutions call upon Israel to comply with basic principles of international law embodied by the UN Charter. Many of them condemn actions taken by Israel and call upon Israel on more than one occasion to comply with previous resolutions that Israel ignored and continues to ignore to this day.

On June, 14, 1967, through Resolution No. 237, the Security Council called upon Israel to “ensure the safety, welfare and security of the inhabitants, facilitate the return of those inhabitants who have fled the areas since the outbreak of the hostilities and recommends the scrupulous respect of the humanitarian principles contained in the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949.” In subsequent resolutions, the Security Council deplored Israel for the delay in its implementation of Resolution 237. Yet, Israel continued to defy the world community, including the United States. The Security Council, in the face of Israel’s defiance, passed no less than five subsequent resolutions demanding that Israel comply but to this day, thirty five years after June 14, 1967, the defiance continues.”

I have heard from many friends who have visited Israel that there is extreme racism in Israel

Racism in Israel
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/09/feeling-more-hate-in-jerusalem.html

Feeling the Hate in Israel
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/06/max-blumenthal-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of-obamas-cairo-address.html

Feeling the Hate (Huffington Post had to pull these clips)

http://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/feeling-the-hate-in-tel-aviv.html

“We’re the victims.”- Israeli version

“We want peace.” – Israeli version

Even that is not enough. If they attack Lebanon, this time they’ll try and take control of the Litani River. Gaza is being deprived of water now and Israel still wants more. This is the only place that they can get it.
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“Israel has considered diverting the Litani southward, first proposed in 1905 because it seemed “the waters of the Jordan basin would be insufficient for the future needs of Palestine.” The Litani, because of its water, was suggested to become part of the “national Jewish entity” in 1919 but this was rejected by the League of Nations, and the Litani became part of Lebanon.”

http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/litani.htm

Masters at flipping the script.

Have you ever noticed that any threads that have to do with Israel or Iran never make the box here at Seminal. Especially Israel. At one point the thread that I put up called “Breaking the Silence” made the box for about a half an hour but then was quickly taken out. Someone like Mac must have put the squeeze on it making the box

If ya can’t refute the truth suppress it. AIPAC spends a lot of time, effort and money doing just that.

suppress, spin, flip the script.

divert, deny, lie

Plus we have people like Alan Dershowitz. Any whiff of criticism of Israeli policy and the “anti-Semitic” card gets played. There was a time when the term “anti-Semitic” referred to people who didn’t like Jews. Today the term refers to people the Jews don’t like.

What does the wall and the settlements have to do with anything that I said?????

Have you ever heard a word from me in support of settlements???

Professor Norman Finkelstein can sure attest to Dershowitz power and influence

this is one brave man
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

Dershowitz and Finkelstein have been on Democracy Now numerous times. They really go at it. The difference is that Finkelstein does not try to cut Dershowitz out of his job due to his opinions. Dershowitz does not like a guy like Norman who is all about the facts on the ground
http://www.democracynow.org/2003/9/24/scholar_norman_finkelstein_calls_professor_alan

Easy to do. A concentrated effort to recommend other diaries will force you or anyone else out of the magic box. The system reminds me of children trying for the gold star. It should be on a rotating basis so that all get equal coverage, but that might annoy the advertisers. Besides, we do have multiple alias writers here. One person writing under three or four names would then get three or four recommends. Kind of a stacked deck with 5 aces..’g’.

Take AIPAC’s tax free status away and they will have less money to bribe your senators with. They are agents of a foreign government and should be registered as such. Never do you have to wonder how senators will vote. A check at AIPAC’s site for their latest ‘take action’ campaign will tell you. The current ones are:
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“# Reject the Goldstone Report
# Pass Tougher Iran Sanctions
# Back Divestment from Iran
# Support Security Aid to Israel”

so do you think that all of the illegal settlements should be dis mantled? Lands given back, compensation, what? I have become a strong believer in the one state solution. This will once and for all expose what a racist country Israel has been and continues to be.

Not content with contributions from live people, they are now pushing to benefit after their donors are no more.
********
“AIPAC contributors who make a bequest or other planned gift to AIPAC’s endowment program by December 29th, 2009, will be honored in the award-winning book, Commitment Matters. All legacy donors are listed on the AIPAC Partners for Tomorrow Honor Roll. Those who pledge $1 million or more can share their personal stories through a full page portrait and testimonial. Donors who commit $100,000 or more are invited to publish their motivations “in their own words.” “

Senator Fullbright tried to force

http://www.ifamericansknew.com/us_ints/pg-fa.html

“963: Senator Fulbright Investigates AIPAC

“n 1962, Senator Fulbright became concerned about the activities of unregistered foreign agents working to influence public opinion and policy in the United States. His interest was piqued by a pair of articles authored by journalist Walter Pincus and Douglass Cater. Their reporting detailed U.S. -backed Dominican Republic dictator Rafael Trujillo’s attempts to use U.S. media for public relations. They also uncovered the Guatemalan regime’s covert purchase of friendly coverage in the American Mercury, a magazine founded by H.L. Mencken in 1924.[x]

Fulbright offered Walter Pincus a temporary research assignment investigating the scope and breadth of the U.S. activities of unregistered foreign agents. Pincus worked as staff director of the two-member investigatory subcommittee, bringing on staff counsel Charles P. Sifton (now a senior federal judge in Brooklyn).[xi] Pincus duly documented Trujillo’s efforts to influence Kennedy administration sugar policies and other Latin American foreign agency issues through a series of overseas fact-finding trips. However, the Fulbright hearings were not at all limited to Latin America. They investigated ten lobbying groups suggested by Pincus that paralleled his news reports including China, West Germany, and Ghana.[xii] The investigators also subpoenaed documents, developed evidence, and called witnesses from important and highly active Zionist organizations in the United States that were established and given seed money by Israeli-government-related entities. Fulbright focused on the central funding role of the Jewish Agency in Jerusalem and New York, Israeli government propaganda and ownership of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, and funding for publications including the Near East Report and Israel Digest. The investigation also studied the conduits and internal financial operations of the American Zionist Council, Si Kenen, and AIPAC.”

President Kennedy also wanted the American Zionist Committee to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/fara/

As long as Israel refuses to repatriate those they ran out of their homes and country Israel should be made to pay for the upkeep of the refugees in Jordan et al.

The Israel Lobby is a great book.

You’re a very, very bad little person today. Someone like me is keeping you from your place in the box? How? Shame, shame, shame.

Actually, I think that Israel should go on a massive building program in the West Bank.
I want there to be plenty of nice big houses, roads, and brand new water systems. Everything nice and new and ready to be handed back along with sovereignty.

“threads that have to do with Israel or Iran never make the box here”

The secret Zionist worldwide conspiracy sure has a long arm, huh?

“Dispatches investigates one of the most powerful and influential political lobbies in Britain, which is working in support of the interests of the State of Israel.

Despite wielding great influence among the highest realms of British politics and media, little is known about the individuals and groups which collectively are known as the pro-Israel lobby.

Political commentator Peter Oborne sets out to establish who they are, how they are funded, how they work and what influence they have, from the key groups to the wealthy individuals who help bankroll the lobbying. ”

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-42/episode-1

Giving land back: if there was ever any serious hope of that, Hamas ruined it. The Israelis gave back Gaza, even driving their own people out at gunpoint, and what did they get? More rockets.

Leen, My People have relented. YOU are going to The Big Box!!!

Horseshit, Grumpy. Giving Gaza back was a ploy. It could never have be viable standing alone.
Of course, Hamas has done whatever it could do to make things worse, but Sharon’s making a cynical gesture ain’t nothing to trumpet.

Please, My People. You must leave Leen’s post up.

Ah, Sharon. The great sleeping killer elephant. Makes me wonder if Israel is going to have its Terri Schiavo moment.

I think that ancient wisdom suggests that you best just let them lie.

You keep insisting that the film is bullshit propaganda (”the stuff is still a misrepresentation.”) BUT you provide NO specifics regards your assertions.

I asked if you had joined J Street in trying to ascertain if you were indeed-as others have suggested- an AIPAC defender. Your posts seem not, despite your efforts to try and make the appearance of calling for ‘evenhandedness’ consistent with what J Street is trying to achieve and much more consistent with an AIPAC pov.

Horseshit, macaquerman. Palestinians claimed Gaza had been stolen (during the ‘67 war), Israel gave it back, and the result was more rocket attacks.

Is that a precedent that will encourage Israel to give back more land in the future?

ubet, start out with the claim up top on that nice freeze-frame stating that the families of those presently called Palestinians have lived there for thousands of years.
That’s the very bit of untrue propaganda. If you scroll back, you might notice that I pointed this out.
If you knew any more about my comments on FDL you might notice that I despise AIPAC.

Grumpy, take a minute and think about how Gaza and Gaza alone was sustainable.
It’s a hellhole and has long been one. It had one main legit form of employment for it’s men and that was working for the Israelis. Those jobs vanished with the settlers and the border restrictions.

If you want to talk about the Gaza withdrawal as some sort of “ploy” or about it’s economic sustainability I’m willing: but could you actually address the current point first? As I said in the beginning, “if there was ever any serious hope of that (return of the land captured/stolen in ‘67), Hamas ruined it.”

Before you go off on all these side issues, take a minute and think about my point: the next time someone wants Israel to give up some of the ‘67 land the Israelis are (quite rightly) going to remember what happened the last time.

Do you think I’m wrong about that?

I’m sure that the Israelis will remember. One thing at which the people in the area excel is remembering the injustices done to them.
However, the withdrawal from Gaza should be any template for the West Bank and/or the end of the occupation. That’s got to come within the framework of a negotiated agreement with the Palestinians (and probably others) rather than unilaterally.

shouldn’t be any template, shouldn’t

I’m glad you agree that the Palestinian response to the Gaza withdrawal was an injustice to Israel.

I do and it was just one of many. Both sides seem determined to dwell upon injustices done, and ignore their common humanity as well as any idea of a better future.
It serves no one.

You’re absolutely right. Something to bear in mind is that the young adults on both sides have spent their entire lives in a state of war, and they were raised by parents who spent their entire lives in a state of war. That’s got to produce an “us/them” mindset almost impossible to break.

Do you think it is fair to say that many of the Palestinian’s grievances are Civil Rights issues? Property confiscated, arrests and searches, restricted movements, discrimination?