Ralph Nader called in to a Fox News Radio station in Houston and dropped this little gem:
To put it very simply, he is our first African American president; or he will be. And we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he’s going to be Uncle Sam for the people of this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations.
Then he defends his statement on Fox News with Shepard Smith:
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Words fail.
At least he didn’t say “Uncle Sambo.” What a pantload!!!
Two words:
Fuck Ralph.
Uncle Tom according to wikipedia:
-a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation
-It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group.
The half black man won, Ralph, and no racist comments is going to alter that fact. The answer to your question would be no and will you please go away now.
Nader reminds me of the old lady on that show “The Golden Girls”. He has a bit of a turrets syndrome thing going on.
I’ll second that.
He needs to either go away (please, Ghu!), or go into politics full-time instead of only every fourth year.
Easy now, buckaroos. I love Obama and I wish Ralph had chosen a different word (toady would have done fine to make his point, which I do not agree with). But you have to admit that he stood up to this newscaster who thought he was going to be able to engage in a cheap and easy tongue-thrashing. We do Obama no favors by sheltering him from tough questions. Ralph has been a spoiler, yes, but he has stood up for working men and women, people of color, and the poor all his life. Let’s get past the unfortunate wording and respect a man who has spent a lifetime standing up to authority.
Taking Nader’s Uncle Tom remark as ugly and offensive has nothing to do with standing up for Obama in regards to any of the specifics that Nader was reciting. Nor does it have anything to do with siding with the Fox news caster for simply asking Nader if he would like to use a different word or words to describe who he was speaking about.
Nader trashes people all of the time in his comfortable seat of bringing in money to most assuredly not get elected. He’d do well to choose his words a little more thoughtfully than he did in that interview. I’m sick of Nader and his ‘Save the country’ every four years game.
What ever happened to the old Ralph? The one of thirty and forty years ago? The real force for good. Not the WATB he’s become.
And who helped create all those poor people, Ralph? You, who took your Uncle Tom money from the Republicans to help spoil two elections and give Bush, Cheney and Rove the “mandate” to bankrupt this country.
Stepin Fetchit Nader, who can’t even get respect on Fox.
fuck Ralph
I’ll go with the fuck Ralph comments too.
Yeah, although Fuck-off Ralph also seems to do the trick for me.
Nader/Ferraro 2012!
Nader is getting senile. He has become irrelevant…
Poor wording to be sure… but I like Ralph and a voted for him … the only presidential ballot bubble i could possibly talk myself into filling in last week. Thank you, Ralph, for making that possible!
Of course Obama is going to favor the corporations over the people – that has always been clear as day!
That is why he arm-twisted and whipped his colleagues into supporting the Paulson/Bush Bailout, and why he recanted his opposition to telecom immunity, to name but two recent examples.
Enthusiastic Progressives have gotten behind this agenda completely – thats what you support, too! So why not just own it proudly, reframe the debate, and say ‘err, corporations are needy and deserving too, and the best use of tax dollars is to generously subsidize the companies who donated to your Candidate!
That’s how you would really piss off Ralph Nader, too, btw.
How sad: He should go on away with Palin and Mc and W….we’ve heard enough
Another Ferraro. Legacy undone by saying stupid things.
I find Nader’s remark deeply offensive.
I was done with Ralph in 2000.
Not that I ever supported him for office. I am a Democrat. But there were issues on which I agreed with him.
Now I am really, really, really done with Ralph.
Now, as Obama faces the immense task of carrying out his mandate, we do not need this kind of foolish noise getting in the way.
Two Words For Ralph Nada “FUCK YOU” oh and thats not a typo! He is nothing and is meaningless to the country and it’s people! So he I
s Ralph of Nada!
o/t Webb groupie info: Rachel has Senator Webb up after the break.
I think twolf1 may have chosen the wrong title for this post…another one suggests itself
That was not an answer to a question – it was a racist statement, buckaroo.
I disagree totally. The FOX guy succeeded in fixating upon the point Nader pushed hardest – Uncle Tom. He apparently fixated some pups here, too, eh?
Is Nader incorrect in his major assertions? I haven’t found any yet.
Nader was just giving Obama the only post-election wedgie Ralph thought he had a shot at. He got it…
Nader’s the one of best loose cannons on deck in American politics. Unsafe at any speed, but he’s right to push this stuff on the same day Rahm Emanuel is made the WH COS in-waiting.
When you say fuck Ralph… you say fuck these issues.
When you say fuck Ralph with such ease…and say next to nothing when Dems embrace the fall of FISA, more war in AF/PAK, Wealthfare bailouts, civil unions, no healthcare…
You sell out yourself and the best your country can be, far to easily, imo.
Happy, happy, happy, with 5 out of 7 of my yard signs being winners. If only we can get a Senator Franken!
But my hatred of Ralph Nader is only increasing. Now Nader shows that he is a stinking neo-con racist. Remember, Nader has NO ACTUAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Oh, except he did help the neo-cons steal the 2000 and 2004 elections. Did anyone ever heart Nader criticize those horrific Computer vote stealing machines?
Nader is an opportunist of the first order. He is a white Alan Keyes.
Runs to fill his coffers so he can go on living the easy life – and never do any heavy lifting.
Yes… many many times.
What ever happened to the old Ralph? The one of thirty and forty years ago? The real force for good.
Senility.
I remember back in 2004 when he was on Maher’s show (the one where Bill got down on his hands and knees and *begged* Ralph to not run), and even then, he was so divorced from reality that it was both shocking and sad.
That being said – fuck Ralph.
It was a valid question. By the time a person is Ralph’s age they should be capable of expressing it without racist overtones.
Personally, I still don’t believe Nader is a racist, I think he has a tin-ear regarding what constitutes acceptable contemporary discourse.
I respect and admire Ralph, I think he could’ve chosen more tactful words, but, he does make a very valid point as to whether Obama will kowtow to the Corporatocracy that rules the land… Anyways, ES, did you see how red Arkansas is…?
I really cannot see any valid reason whatsoever for injecting the question of race into a discussion of Obama’s stance toward corporations. I think it is what is called a cheap shot.
The “uncle Tom” meme has been often used in the past, inside the American left, and not perceived as a canard or racist remark. This is total BS.
_________________ _________________
Gordon H Smith (Republican) 693,526 47.00%
Jeff Merkley (Democrat) 698,630 47.35%
Dave Brownlow (Constitution) 79,194 5.37%
Write-in Votes 4,160 0.28%
_________________ _________________
Totals: 1,475,510 100%
Not perceived as a racist remark by whom?
And is the effect not a little different when addressed to a black man?
I don’t think we should ever make excuses for people who make racist statements. Maybe Nader is not a “racist” but if he isn’t, why would he say that? No excuse for something so ugly.
i’m glad ralph never said fuck america or fuck the people of america who need seat belts or nucleaqr power plant safety or whatever. good thing for us.
i think it sad how easily people can be offended. why not just judge the substanceof what ralph said which is entirely reasonable.
Uh, hello… I was born here. /s
What impressed me… over 200k votes for a Green against Pryor.. 20%, but.. she probably didn’t have $20k to work with.
No wonder i didn’t want to get out of bed this morning.
here is the wikipedia on the term.
Uncle Tom is a pejorative for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation. The term Uncle Tom comes from the title character of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin, although there is debate over whether the character himself is deserving of the pejorative attributed to him. Stowe never meant Uncle Tom to be a degrading character, but the term as a pejorative has developed based on how later versions of the character, stripped of his strength, were depicted on stage.[1]
It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group.
That’s not the point. He did some very good things years ago and I applaud that. I grew up in the south and I know what I think of as “casual” racism is all about. People who indulge in that would never harm anyone but think it’s okay to make remarks like that. Would it hurt if Obama’s children heard such a thing? I think so.
i’m with ET and ES. this is nuts.
Also sad that Fox News is playing a game of “gotcha” with a candidate who got less than one percent of the vote.
Gawd Ralph quit projecting and get thee hence to a mental institution. YOU are unsafe at ANY speed.
Heh, I was surprised to see Arkansas as the veritable heart of the Republican movement!
ralph nader-corporate barometer since the 70’s through the 80’s and into the 90’s and now.
he was right then about corporations and he is right now. every single thing he said would happen did. everything he said the corporations would take they did.
he was right about what advertising would do to our culture to children to education.
that corporations would be telling us what our lives would be.
he was right about what it would do to workers, to health care, to retirement funds, to safety in the workplace, to the way our government would be further corrupted by them and that jobs would be shipped to countries with less-restrictive laws on environment and safety and taxes.
the man was fucking right. how do i remember all of this? because if it wasn’t for him i wouldn’t know half of what i know..i remember him on donahue and it woke my young mind up..so quit listening to the FLAMEWORDS and listen to what the hell he is saying about the global corporate structure—he predicted what is happening now 30 years ago, i’d be inclined to listen to the man. it ’s not about obama, it’s about CORPORATIONS.
the man knows corporations and the negative ways in which they operate better than anyone. every aspect. he knows they own our fuciing country and our government. face it.
i’m not going to ignore his message because of an insulting analogy. he’s been trying to get people to listen for so long, i would have given up already.
pete rose gambled on baseball, does that mean he doesn’t have the record for most hits?
People who have the same positions as Ralph, despise him for it… because they keep selling out to the D party and despising themselves for it.
If only he would go the fuck away so they wouldn’t have to face it. /s
It may be a longer 4/8 years under O than it was under B jr.
It was all about Race and the bible this year… especially race… and AR is (obviously now) one of the worst. Plus we only have about 12 percent African American population. Small for the South.
I only bemoan the poor choice of words he utilized, selise, I do admire his basic philosophy in defending the little guy…! I’ve actually met him and voted for him too…!
Well said, dmac!
My Obama car magnet has been and still is prominently displayed on my fridge. Not taking a chance of vandalism, etc…
I haven’t talked to my Republican sister in Oklahoma yet but unless I am mistaken, they went for McCain by the largest margin, 66 percent to 34 for Obama. I intend to tell her that hopefully under Obama they’ll receive better funding for education.
Heh, even worse than Mississippi…!
I’ve been watching Nader on accusations of racism for a long time. He perceives himself to be non-white or almost that way – he’s Lebanese American.
He regularly says so much, he can be quoted on a lot of provocative stuff, when he’s in the limelight. He’s often taken out of context, but the problem with the UT remark and how we’re dealing with it now, is that we’re entering a cyclone.
Beware of getting into progressive-vs-liberal pissing matches, or complaining about racial and heritage context situations on blogs now. Do the arguments, please. But don’t portray Nader as if he perceives himself to be what white Americans themselves perceive to be “white.”
the guy just gets villified at every turn despite by being a great friend to the masses and one who has never ever been on the take in any way, shape or form.
Ralph Nader is just a lying, creepy, worthless troll. Again, he has never done anything but criticize corporations while taking money from them. For the record, he did nothing in the anti-vietnam war effort.
New York county (Manhattan) went for Obama by 81-17. I’d guess that would be higher than any other county in the country.
Nader has officially entered Harold Stassen territory….
He was the only candidate who thinks marijuana should be legal. Unfortunately, I still don’t expect to see THAT happen in my lifetime.
lol… sad but true. I wanted a yard sign, but nobody drives by my house.
there is absolutely no excuse for calling an African-American person an Uncle Tom in American public life. none. zip. Behaving thusly makes me utterly uninterested in anything else the speaker has to say. Sure, Nadar might’ve once stood for something I might’ve cared about, but then again so did Geraldine F. Past good deeds don’t excuse anything of this nature. I’m going to have to join the chorus: frack Nadar.
Some people do not age gracefully and Ralph Nader is one of these. It might help put things in perspective to realize that he is two years older than John McCain. So when Ralph goes all grand-dad waving the cane and curmudgeonly on us there is a reason.
Neck and red neck…)
we both said ‘face it’ at 7:07
jinx you owe me a coke.
preach it dmac. i appreciate you saying all that because it really bothers me when people pick on ralph. some of my heroes have been doing it recently and yet, at the end of the day and my utter contentment with the election barack obama notwithstanding, nader is outside the political structure and as such a candidate, would likely be a better choice for president despite the utter opposition he would face if he ever did get elected.
I think we can safely refer to that as a decisive victory.
I think he has a tin-ear regarding what constitutes acceptable contemporary discourse.
Well, with all the Fuck Ralph’s on this thread, apparently he’s not the only tin-ear on the planet.
I say ditto to what dmac said. he has raised a lot issues up long before others climbed on the anti-corporate train.
sorry you are so sensitive blub that one remark clouds your vision thusly.
Ummm, by suing them, he took money from them…
Agreed – “fuck Ralph” seems to sum it up best.
I think San Francisco County did about the same
Precisely. Plus as pointed out several times above,, The Uncle Tom usage was definitively accurate… only the times have changed.
Many “fucks” above… need to take a look at the true source of their anger.
With a cherry!
Thank you, Frank! Absolutely right. Might I add, if Nader is such a hero for the worlking man, why has he never run for any other office? Mayor? Congress? Senate?… Dog Catcher? He is only prepared to serve if we elect him President… with NO experience in actual… you know… governance? *spit* Go Away Ralph.
Will Ralph talk about how Republicans are his biggest backers because they like seeing him siphon off votes from Democrats?
San Francisco County, 85 percent Obama, 13 percent McCain.
85-13! Wow!
I am completely stunned at some of the comments. This place would have exploded if Rush Limbaugh had made such a statement but it’s okay for Nader? I don’t understand at all.
i’ve never heard anyone call the term “uncle tom” racist before (although, if it’s just my ignorance i hope to be corrected) and plenty for people use it to identify sell outs of various kinds (not only racial).
it is hard language though. but for a candidate who lied to us and sold us out on fisa, who pushed the seriously flawed wall street bailout, who has supported the death penalty, said that a woman’s mental health is not really her health, who gave the speech he did to aipac, who hasn’t supported universal single payer health care, who wants to increase the size of the military, escalate the war in afghanistan, etc, etc. is it too harsh? i don’t think so.
obama has championed positions what will kill people. for every person who says “fuck ralph” for saying what he did – i want to know how many times have you said “fuck obama” for doing far worse?
oh it doesn’t mean he doesn’t make me cringe sometimes when he opens his mouth.
like many long-time activists, he says inflammatory things to be heard or out of frustration then his real facts and message are lost because of it.
tnx–my favorite, a real cherry coke.
my comment wasn’t directed at you – it was directed at the “fuck ralph” and “fuck nader” comments.
Beyond his advocacy for consumers, I can’t think of much Nader has actually DONE for the masses, given he’s not held any office. As a voice for the oppressed, I’d take the substance of a Studs Terkel over Nader anyday.
Aside from consumer advocacy, just what HAS Nader done for the masses, besides draining off needed votes in 2000?
Chicago County, 85 Obama, 14 McCain.
please consider watching ralph nader:an unreasonable man.
is the argument now that because ralph has not been willing to go for lower office, he must be a bad guy or corrupt in some way? the ego accusations against ralph do not hold water.
probably when we talk about the “pro life” ad that ran here for about two weeks.
It took me a long time to admit to myself, how few here are truly what I consider to be progressive… We really need to define it.
great point, selise! you go!
i like obama too but let’s face it, he is the best of who was electable. he is electable because of many of the things you listed of which the telecom immunity position pisses me off the most.
in 8 years i hope some people will consider the next best thing to ralph, dennis kucinich, (though i think jim webb will likely be in pposition by then.)
i guess it depends if the phrase is used as a noun or a verb or an adjective.
I”m amazed you’d admit that in public.
You’ve no shame, have you. *G*
Ah well, it IS a free country.
Hell, look at the whackaloons who got us INTO the past 30 years, and the last 8.
Your vote for Nader, however, might even transcend the whackaloons, hoss.
He gets the speaking fees. He got money from neo-cons for his campaigns. Maybe I am wrong about Nader. But what has he contributed against the War against Neo-cons? What has he said about the 9-11 attacks, Sibel Edmonds, Cheyney’s false flag ops. etc.
I am quite happy with a mushy moderate such as Obama. I would swoon with Sen. Franken because he is funny. But I do have some anger issues against a lot of macaca. Nader has not been helpful since 1965.
A definitive schism has erupted amongst the ranks…!
Serious question – how would you define it?
you are correct, es. it sucks having to remind people of obama’s shortcomings today when i am actually happy he will be president.
I simply do not understand how anyone who has not run for lower office can be expected to be taken seriously as a candiate fot the highest political office in the land. It smacks of a certain personal sense of exceptionalism that, I believe, disqualifies Nader from this office,
Considering you have challenged me to the equivalent of fist fights for far less… I really don’t care what you think, dude.
watertiger up at the mothership
maybe we need both obama and nader? that they each have an important role to play that complements the other?
nader because he speaks the truth far more than most in public life – and obama because he’s establishment enough to get elected so we don’t have to live with 4 years of mccain and/or palin.
It would take a few threads… like a months worth…) But when I look at Ralph’s seventeen issues, I think the guy is off to a remarkably good start.
He has been very forthright against that litany, but, you don’t hear about it from the MSM… For some strange reason or other!
I’m sorry, but that’s really difficult to believe…. that it would simply not occur to you that calling an African-American man an Uncle Tom might be considered anything other than racist. We vilify wingnuts for making much more veiled references than that. We cheer when KO puts people who say things just like that on Worst Person in the World every night. Nadar can’t be held to a double standard.
Ralphd Nader would not make a good president. His stands on certain issues certainly aligns with many we support, but the man is a loose cannon and at this point in time, totally using his ‘fame’ as a spoiler. And he is enjoying the role entirely too much.
He can bring his points to the table without ‘running’ for office. he can use his foundation to print ads bringing his points to the front. But running for office? To spoil the other candidate? He loves pissing at the party.
Now maybe some here don’t like Obama. That has been apparent for awhile. And I, too, haven’t agreed with some of his changes to his stance on FISA and other matters. But looking for perfect in this context is not going to take back our country in total. First we must start with an honest man. I believe Obama fits that bill. I do not believe Nader at this point is an honest broker.
LOL. i can’t imagine why that would be *g*
On top of all this, I hear Nader is a lousy tipper when he eats out.
The sellling out would be not to back the candidate who CAN beat McCain. You’d be electing McCain were it not for Obama. And we’d be getting all the bad things Bush gave us, and more.
With Obama, we might actually see changes in DOJ, AG enforcement, and across the board IN government, lobbyists, and in issues. Would NOT have been so with McCain.
And Nader cost us George Bush, in ‘00. Likely, ‘04 also (along with voter tampering and suppression issues).
So YOUR guy is to really be blamed for the past 8 years. Your logic escapes me, hoss. Utterly.
Not to mention getting out of Iraq, and likely Afghanistan, too . . . . the budget alone will for a reduction in overseas interventionist policies . . . and we got nukes galore for that leverage, we don’t need boots on ground.
We can have this chat again, in 4 years, no? And see how it has gone. *G*
I got a buck two fifty sez I’m right. *G*
no. it didn’t and it doesn’t. but that doesn’t mean it isn’t racist, and i’m certainly not claiming that i’m not. can you give me a link to read that might help me understand? thanks.
I am sorry that you are not happy with the election of Obama and not of McCain. Would it easier to be mad at McCain?
During the ’60s, the term was used frequently (and often unfairly) by people affiliated with the black power movement in a derogatory way to describe black individuals perceived as being subservient to whites. Since then it has sometimes been used in a broader sense to describe anyone believed to have “sold out.” Unwise to use it in a public setting however, since for many the term will always have racist overtones.
i don’t know sue, his rec ord is exceptional. i am amazed at how true that man has been to himself. because of this, i think he has unbelievably good karma and will live an exceptionally long life.
we are what we are. it’s just confusing to me when call things what they aren’t (if that makes even a little bit of sense).
No its NOT BS!
It’s unacceptable, and so is the Uncle Tom meme, always has been.
Course, that’s how I was raised. And it’s how I am.
Race based meme’s are unacceptable.
where did that come from? i never said anything of the kind.
thanks.
g/ma j, how do you know ralph is enjoying this behavior he is accused of? do you and he stay up late chatting on the phone or something?
Aaargh, that refrain is so debunked and WRONG! Please look at the real facts of the Florida ‘00 votes…
So Bush stole an election in which Gore won the popular vote.. even though three million Dems voted for Bush.
But Ralph is to blame for the last 8 years… not the Dems feckless behavior or the GOPers criminal behavior.
Uh huh…
Well said.
take a look…scroll down right past what i am pasting below and look at the massive amounts of things this man has done. look at all of the subject matter, it’s all things we bitch about here..but he didn’t just bitch, he got it started, he did it first. first.
his work on the fda alone would be enough for one lifetime.just take a look at some of the non-profits he started, to protect human beings’ safety and rights.
then say fuck him if you want to, but understand who you are saying it to.and this is just a wiki short piece, doesn’t describe anything about what he had to take on to do it all.
====
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader
They came to be known as “Nader’s Raiders” who, under Nader, investigated government corruption, publishing dozens of books with their results:
* Nader’s Raiders (Federal Trade Commission)
* Vanishing Air (National Air Pollution Control Administration)
* The Chemical Feast (Food and Drug Administration)
* The Interstate Commerce Omission (Interstate Commerce Commission)
* Old Age (nursing homes)
* The Water Lords (water pollution)
* Who Runs Congress? (Congress)
* Whistle Blowing (punishment of whistle blowers)
* The Big Boys (corporate executives)
* Collision Course (Federal Aviation Administration)
* No Contest (corporate lawyers)
* Destroy the Forest (Destruction of ecosystems worldwide)
* Operation: Nuclear (Making of a nuclear missile)
Nader speaks out against the Iraq War at the September 15, 2007 anti-war protest.
In 1971, Nader founded the non-governmental organization (NGO) Public Citizen as an umbrella organization for these projects. Today, Public Citizen has over 140,000 members and investigates Congressional, health, environmental, economic and other issues. Nader wrote, “The consumer must be protected at times from his own indiscretion and vanity.”[16]
In the 1970s and 1980s Nader was a key leader in the anti-nuclear power movement. “By 1976, consumer advocate Ralph Nader, who later became allied with the environmental movement ’stood as the titular head of opposition to nuclear energy’”[17][18] He advocates the complete elimination of nuclear energy in favor of solar, tidal, wind and geothermal, citing environmental, worker safety, migrant labor, national security, disaster preparedness, foreign policy, government accountability and democratic governance issues to bolster his position.[19]
i think there is a rule, maybe it needs to have a name, that is related to IOKIYAR and reminds us that if anything bad happens it is never, ever the fault of the dems.
Cuz that’s how evil perpetuates itself. It worms in, and bores deeper into the collective conciousness bit by bit until it’s accepted as a norm.
I reject this norm. Racist meme’s used by pseudo liberals of wealthy means are still racist meme’s and are used deliberately and for purpose.
I reject that. I reject Ralph Nader.
that’s the dragnet version. his judgment, thoughtfulnees and persistence are hardly protrayed therein. why is it so many of us have turned on him? it’s a strangely amazing phenomenon.
(last one mods)
Non-profit organizations
In 1980, Nader resigned as director of Public Citizen to work on other projects, forcefully campaigning against what he believed to be the dangers of large multinational corporations. He went on to start a variety of non-profit organizations:
* Citizen Advocacy Center
* Citizens Utility Boards
* Congress Accountability Project
* Consumer Task Force For Automotive Issues
* Corporate Accountability Research Project
* Disability Rights Center
* Equal Justice Foundation
* Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
* Georgia Legal Watch
* National Citizens’ Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
* National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
* Pension Rights Center
* PROD (truck safety)
* Retired Professionals Action Group
* The Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
* 1969: Center for the Study of Responsive Law
* 1970s: Public Interest Research Groups
* 1970: Center for Auto Safety
* 1970: Connecticut Citizen Action Group
* 1971: Aviation Consumer Action Project
* 1972: Clean Water Action Project
* 1972: Center for Women’s Policy Studies
* 1973: Capitol Hill News Service
* 1980: Multinational Monitor (magazine covering multinational corporations)
* 1982: Trial Lawyers for Public Justice
* 1982: Essential Information (encourage citizen activism and do investigative journalism)
* 1983: Telecommunications Research and Action Center
* 1983: National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
* 1989: Princeton Project 55 (alumni public service)
* 1993: Appleseed Foundation (local change)
* 1994: Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees)
* 1995: Center for Insurance Research
* 1995: Consumer Project on Technology
* 1997?: Government Purchasing Project (encourage purchase of safe products)
* 1998: Center for Justice and Democracy
* 1998: Organization for Competitive Markets
* 1998: American Antitrust Institute (ensure fair competition)
* 1999?: Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
* 1999?: Commercial Alert (protect family, community, and democracy from corporations)
* 2000: Congressional Accountability Project (fight corruption in Congress)
* 2001: Citizen Works (promote NGO cooperation, build grassroots support, and start new groups)
* 2001: Democracy Rising (hold rallies to educate and empower citizens)
That is a strawman. I did not vote for Obama, having pulled my support of him after he reneged on his pledge to filibuster the FISA Amendments Act. It doesn’t mean I was for McCain. It means that Obama gave me no affirmative reason to vote for him and I wasn’t willing to go the lesser of two evils route yet again. And no, I do not consider the FISA bill a minor matter or an imperfection. Seeing all the DLCers, neoliberals, and Clinton retreads he has surrounded himself with I have serious doubts about how effective or successful an Obama Presidency is likely to be.
Thank you d…a good reminder of what he’s done and how he does it. Ha. You even found the anti war stuff.
If a person does some really good things, does that mean that everything he does from then on is good?
I find this very disturbing.
Truly astonishing to see so many “libs” shoot their brethren in the foot… If nothing else (and there is) we owe Ralph a lot for showing this about ourselves to all of us
I would never vote for a Republican but describe myself as an independent. During the past 8 years the Republicans have behaved in an irresponsible and criminal manner and all but a handful of Dems have served as enablers. Since 2006… so what if they didn’t have enough votes to override a veto, they should have told Bush, here is our military funding bill WITH timelines, take it or leave it, if the latter, we can start bringing the troops back right now.
Still hoping one day there will be a viable third party.
You all are faulting him falsely, imo, to enormous proportions… but then turn around and declare him meaningless or just flat wrong.
Which is it?
By the way, I listened to Rushbo for a few minutes today, just to see if he was tripping on the Oxycontin. He cannot help himself with his racism. The core of racism is not necssaruly the degree of insult. But it is to diminish and distract by stereotype.
Burt Rush just had to say what the election represented. “It is all about race.”. And he repeated it so his followers would have this KKKarl talking point memorized.
Are we not allowed to criticize when we think something is wrong?
What, you don’t like being confronted or challenged?
Fist fights? Equivalent of? Yer bending words.
But that’s ok. I don’t mind, I guess. Or care.
Guess I’ll let the others speak for me from now on . . . . and you can be ‘disquited’ with them.
Just asking for clarification.
nader summary:
consumer advocate extraordinaire
environmentalist extraordinaire
ada advocate extraordinaire
pretty damn smart guy (even smarter than me, maybe)
loose lips (sometimes)
heart in the right place
a little Christopher Lloyd
not necessarily presidential material, though.
not a write-off
went googling… and found this from frontpage on harry belafonte:
ratfood, is this the kind of thing you were referring to? (frontpage sucks, but it is what i found – maybe there are better sources wrt to this incident, but at least it is a recent one)
ok, I’m willing to admit that this maybe a generational thing. only the last dozen or so items on that list correspond with my adult life and, of those, I’ve heard of perhaps one (CAP)… and I’m hardly a low information voter.. I can only judge the man by what I know and care about and what he says today… and by any of those measures his contributions are, frankly, either historical, nonsensical or dubious to me.
Hoss, I’m aware of the voting issues and the Supremes.
Take Nader’s votes and add what ever percentage you want to Gore that Nader likely siphoned off and there IS no Supreme involvement.
This was interesting. I’ve seen this before here, though. I was going to add the old It’s The Context argument, but decided it might be more inflammatory than anything else.
(I also think maybe people are so used to “giving it” to McCain and Palin, they might have been cruising for a…thing.
I respect you and Selise and ET for standing up for your beliefs and values.
ES, I am not trying to pick a fight. Nader did some wonderful work about 30 years ago and I thank him for it. As I mentioned earlier I can’t stand this kind of “casual” racism and yes, I think it was. Thoughtless, perhaps, but I cannot ignore what came out of his own mouth. He said the words – I didn’t. I am about as progressive as you can be and can’t understand why saying that this was wrong makes me not one.
Two things which made me vote for ralph, irrelevant to the Obama/Dem threat argument. My state polled and did vote over 10+ MCain. So I knew it wasn’t going to be close here.
Also, I want a Dem party (President Obama) who will at least nominate folks like Ralph into cabinet positions.
My vote was an effort to make the D party look leftwards. I only wish I had voted for folks like Nader sooner.
Harry isn’t a political figure. Nadar’s a presidential candidate.
well, i’m probably coming around to the third party thinking – not there yet, but i seem to keep moving in that direction.
of course not twain. this was about what nader said about corporations and is our new president going to handle them? or is he going to ‘kow-tow’ to them….now, a new question for everyone-why isn’t ‘kow-tow’ as offensive as ‘uncle tom’? hm?
nader knows corporations and their machinizations, letting the media sensationalize his comments and ignoring the meat of what he is saying is a huge mistake.
like i said earlier-pete rose bet on baseball, does that mean that he didn’t have the record for the most hits?
but are the comments racist? and if so, what makes them racist?
not your responsibility to educated me out of my bigotry, if that’s what it is,…. but i’m trying to understand and appreciate any explanation you are willing to give.
Dmac, at his height as the KIND of Consumer Advocacy, Nader was a hoss.
I’ve not said $uck Nader. I’ve only said what HE said is racist, and is unacceptable.
At one time, Nader was a champion of the masses.
He’s past that point long ago. He’s proven himself to be not so viable.
And now, he’s speaking poorly about a black man just elected president.
His time is past, at his best he was a champoin . . . but it’s time for him to go away.
This should not even be an issue for most.
is the issue nader and that people hate him or is it that he used the phrase “uncle tom”?
someday, i hope phil donahue releases all of the shows with nader.it’s an education.when they do, watch them.
and people called phil a nutcase, too.
they were the only two doing it on a regular basis.
I didn’t disagree with his point – I absolutely disagree with how he made it. Language is important and we all know that after all these years of listening to Rush and the right wing use it as weapons. People need to be careful how they say things.
and Dmac!!!
sorry, when he’s talking about corporations the man is dead-on, i don’t care if he’s muttering out of his head when he’s 100, if it’s about corporations i’ll be listening.and taking notes.
Well, I’m younger than many around these parts, but I was born in AR. Anti racism is so inherent in me, it might be genetic. /s And my first year of school was in Little Rock Central High School (1970).
All of that laid out to say, I have a fairly keen sense when it comes to racist sentiment… and Ralph, imho, didn’t come close to it… except for the fact he appeared on FOX.
ymmv
don’t think you can do that. of the people i’ve talked with who voted nader in 2000 – i don’t think any of them would have voted gore, even if nader wasn’t on the ballot. ‘course thats not a lot of people and may not be representative. but still i don’t think you can assume that nader voters would have voted gore.
as i said earlier, many long-time activists say inflammatory things, whether to be heard or out of frustration, i don’t know. then the meat of what they are saying is lost.
i tend to ignore that part of the message to hear the real message. same as i do when i am listening to anyone.
I think the wiki definition cited above should be sufficient to establish the nearly universal (in my opinion) understanding of the use of “uncle Tom” in the context in which Nadar used it. I’d post more examples but as usual I’m on an iphone
we should just call nader’s votes “nader’s votes,” from now on. they are those among us who are unwilling to bend in the name of who is electable or to meet the less-informed or outright fooled somewhere in the middle. nader’s votes were never going to go to al gore, imho. i v oted for obama ystrdy but for nader in 2000, though in california, no one got mad at me for it that i know of.
What do you think you will gain from having a third party?
Not so much. The Post is a Murdoch publication and that strikes me as a wingnut characterization of Belafonte, however I don’t have any actual knowledge of the incident in question.
As a dated example, in the ’60s, young AA activists deemed the aging Louis Armstrong an “Uncle Tom.” This was based on the fact that his music appealed to a multiracial audience, coupled with a misperception that his demeanor was reminiscent of racist stereotypes from the era of minstrel shows. The characterization was incredibly hurtful to Armstrong, who took great pride in AA accomplishments. He had been booked for a goodwill tour of the Soviet Union and had canceled due to the vehement protests of whites during the court ordered desegregation of Little Rock, saying something to the effect that he couldn’t travel abroad praising the virtues of the U.S. while this sort of thing was happening.
both
hi demio,.
gonna be hitting the feathers as soon as i catch up on comments.see if i missed any.
I was born and grew up in Ms and decided at 14 that I had to get out. It was either that or keep my mouth shut the rest of my life. I’m 75 and have hated any form of racism forever. It makes me feel so awful and sorta sick inside. I can’t help it.
Blub, I’m with you across the board on this one.
I’m convinced, the more I read here at FDL, there’s a definitive contingent of ‘Old School’ liberalism here that continues to hold itself proud of its own old school ways . . which includes some old and outmoded ACCEPTANCE of things a newer liberalism or progressivism finds to be inappropriate.
And so this little squabble of what’s right and wrong will continue.
Along many issues, likely, not just racism.
The use of Uncle Tom as used by Nader was racist.
The term itself, like many others, is inappropriate to be used in public other than to discuss a book or the general concept of what Unkle Tom means.
Once that term is leveled at an individual or a group, it becomes racism.
Like using the term kyke for someone who doesn’t tip well.
That’s just wrong, Ya know?
It’s just not right.
Life is simple, stop screwing it up.
Right and wrong are simple too. Don’t screw THAT up, either.
Harumph.
You’ve been working awfully hard. You must be pooped. Sweet dreams when you get there.
From the DLC’s Al From…
Did Nader actually campaign this year, or did he just show up on TV to announce his candiacy and disappear?
All I ever needed to know I learned in Kindergarten
Period
An alternative. In the past I’ve used the analogy that the two major parties are like fat maggots gnawing on the bloated corpse of our republic. Occasionally, they trade places but the patient’s prognosis remains grim.
Anyway, having competition might force the two current parties to raise the performance bar.
Having said that, I like Obama, voted for him and am (cautiously) hopeful he will accomplish great things. I’ve been voting in presidential elections since 1980 and this is the first time I didn’t feel as if I was simply voting for the lesser of evils.
Me too.. I found a little gem of an exception in the Ozarks. ES is a very progressive exception… else I would not be in this state. I’ve been really upset emotionally and physically today… over the results. Took me by surprise how upsetting this day has been, honestly.
We need folks/voices like Ralph wherever we can find them…
i know where you are coming from twain…
nite.
and my point is that as somebody in his thirties, I postdate the relevance of both men. I simply don’t grasp their significance. I understand what MLK did for me or what JFK did for the country’s psyche.. but I just don’t see it with Ralph, or for that matter Phil. I know What they did intellectually, but I fail to see how it’s any more important than what many many better men than them did in the course of history. As we comment here, shrub is systematically cancelling all manner of consumer, health, safety and environmental protections after presiding over the most
corrupt and venal presidency in at least a century. if Nader can protect his legacy – on the very issues history says he once took an advocacy position by stopping him or catalyIing others into real action, then I might cut him just the slightest bit of slack on this issue, but as it is, please understand that to me, and to just about eveybody else I know in my generation, he’s just another dirty-minded talking head with pretentions to grandeur. I’m sorry to be so blunt and I’m trying to appreciate why so many here seem to put him on a pedestal, but I’m really falling short
Campaigned and was on the ballot in 33 or 35 states. I think he sadi on cspan yesterday.. he spent around 4 million.
Impressive.
Speaking as someone with experience with multi-party elections – two parties on one side of the political spectrum (say left-ish) can mean that the right stays in power.
Which is why here in Canada, when the Reform and Progressive Conservative parties united and stopped splitting the right – we ended up with Stephen Harper.
Think of Ralph as the “organizer” of his times which the establishment wouldn’t let in..or he wouldn’t sell out too. And he did much more..as dmac posted in comments above.
He was on the ballot here, along with Barr, Mckinney and another obscure one…! I couldn’t believe all the choices… Ironically, Obama was at the bottom of the list…!
… and when Dion & Layton roam The Great White North for 6 weeks like neutered Mice, we end up with Harper redux …
neutered mice it is…
Look up the election results (wiki US president 1932, iirc).
FDR won by a large margin…with over 3 million to the left of him, voting socialist, and a couple of other off party candidates garnered a few votes too.
I think a large move to the left of a strong Dem, may just be what it will take to shake things up again in this system. Because as it is now, the Dems only listen to the right.
others worked waaay harder than me, but i did wear my body out, had to stay home yesterday and today just barely movin’ around….worth it.
and larue–people take something in the context in which they learned it. others take something in the context in which they learned it. then add your own context in which you learned it…..learning and understanding all of them helps understand the context.
hate to leave a nader thread, hittin’ the feathers.
turtle with the spunky bullhorn signing off.
i know you don’t grasp his significance, it’s why i stayed up way past when i was going to bed, i’conmpletely exhausted, but it was worth it.
as es said, he was an origianl corporate/safety/health organizer, questioning governmental entities and corporations–he did things that hadn’t been done before, in ways that hadn’t been done before, he is a genius. if not for him i wouldn’t be able to see across my street in daylight and would be drinking water unfit for humans and would have died twice already in car crashes…thank him for your extended life span.
look into him blub, you’ll learn a lot that you will use in your life.
amazing man..
(ok es, i said goodbye three times counting this one..nite.)
in that case, the accusation seems grossly unfair (regardless of whether or not it’s a racist term). what i’m trying to get at is in the case where the accusation is not unfair – is the term racist and so should be avoided in all cases no matter what the circumstances?
thanks. i think that’s what makes it hard for me to pull apart the two issues.
maybe some other time if you are willing. i don’t get it. thanks for trying. really appreciate it.
well, food for thought on the bit about using “uncle tom” – seems so strange to me though when the obama campaign for months (and never corrected it to my knowledge) called the accusations that obama was muslim a “smear.” that’s something that colin powell got just right – the accusation can be inaccurate but it’s not a smear anymore than calling someone a christian is a smear. obama’s campaign should not be perpetuating that kind of bs. and i don’t remember so much outrage about that.
How about ‘Ralph Fucking Nader’?
I was just reading a comment elsewhere from someone who doesn’t think that ‘Uncle Tom’ is racist. Must have slept though that part of its education, because it’s clearly missing the history of the term.
I think it could, marginally, have been worse: Nader could have called Obama an ‘Oreo’.
Selise, he’s done real harm, or groups he’s organized have, to real people. His pet projects got the FDA to ban Cylert, a drug used primarily for ADHD but also for narcolepsy, claiming that it was too dangerous for anyone to use, although the only known fatalities are off-label usage by children (and not many of those, either). The narcolepsy association didn’t get a chance to testify, because the decision was made before they heard about it.
Then there’s the way he got dues for his pet groups written into the fees of a lot of college students – without the students getting a chance to consent or protest, and they have no way to opt out either.
well said.
“the man knows corporations and the negative ways in which they operate better than anyone. every aspect. he knows they own our fuciing country and our government. face it.
i’m not going to ignore his message because of an insulting analogy. he’s been trying to get people to listen for so long, i would have given up already.”"
exactly my view.
> Truly astonishing to see so many “libs” shoot their brethren in the foot
Yes, by making racist remarks and then defending those who make them. Oh wait, wasn’t that what you were talking about?
Otherwise, what Larue said @160
Uncle Tom according to wikipedia:
-a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation
So if we change this to make it a CORPORATE Uncle Tom
- a subservient manner to Corporate American authority figures, or as seeking inigratiation with them by way of unnecessary accomadation.
I admit a very poor choice of words. But a valid point nonetheless. Now that Obama has the job, who are his real constituents going to be? The people, or the corporations?
Whoa.. way out of context.
To be clear, that remark was about the last 8 years of attacking Nader for doing his own thing… with quite a progressive agenda.
Here is Harry Belafonte on his comments wrt Colin Powell. I would like to hear what Harry Belafonte thinks of Obama.
I just got home, boy I’m sorry I missed this thread.
And I’m sorry for those of you who can’t find anything positve about this election. It didn’t go all the way I wanted it to, that’s for sure; but I’m delighted that the country said “Fuck you, Bush.” Fortunately Nader’s Vanity Run 2008 did NOT propel McCain into the White House.
Fuck Nader.
Where is he in between his vanity runs for President? He ran in 2004 in an effort that helped keep Bush in office, he didn’t do it to get someone ‘not-Bush’ elected. He did nothing to help the other Green Party candidates get elected that year or any year since then. Furthermore, he kept the Green Party money raised for himself instead of returning it to the Party.
Now in 2008, he crawls out of his iniguious den again, once more putting the country at risk of keeping the White House the Right-wing House. Who’s side is he really on?
Just what does he do in the meantime for his professed progressive goals? NADA ZILCH ZIP ZED ZERO. He lines his pockets and feeds his ego — and he does it at our peril. He’s no hero anymore.
There was a time when he made a positive difference in our land. But that Ralph Nader has faded away.
And one last thing. His use of Uncle Tom WAS racial ergo racist. He could have made his point with different words if he wanted to, but he didn’t. Just because he has a web page with a list of happy values doesn’t make him a force for good.
Word, Elliott.
Nihilist prick – go home.
And what exactly is Nader doing that is any different than us?
Crawling out of our hole anytime there is a chance our voice might be heard? The dude is 74.. has been right for decades far more than not. Ego or not, I doubt he’s concerned with vanity.. in fact that’s sort of not what Greens do, isn’t it?
Green party development is a marathon not a sprint to be sure… I don’t know where it would or would not be without Ralph’s past participation… but the Greens in AR topped 20 percent in both a senate and two congressional races in AR this year… finally breaking the barrier as a legitimately recognized party by state law from here on out.
I seriously doubt anyone else is cheering that kind of development any more than Nader.
Frankly I like issues, consistency and hard headiness from folks fighting for issues I hold dear.
We (accountability now) are considering working with Ron Paulers on certain issues… there are a lot of Greens and Independents out there we should hope to work with as well.
Looking over Obama -Bidens possible appointee list of old Clintonites this week… and Powell, Rahm, and others… only makes me believe this with much greater resolve.
Naders list (issues) for the most part matches much more of what yours and mine would than almost anyone else I know.. and like Kucinich, the man is experienced, accomplished, detail/fact/action oriented.
If any Blue America candidate wrote a post on the same 17 issues as listed in Ralph’s page… we would all be standing on our chairs clapping… begging them to run for something… anything.
I think we are all over-sensitized to inflammatory languageused to make a political point. At this point – cycle after cycle and eight years of Bush bullying – we find it abusive and detrimental to the debate and listeners.
Beyond the language, Nadar asks an important question.
How much will Obama diminish the influence of corporate American on our government and how committed is he to solving the problems of hunger, housing and health for the poorest among us? We can agree that this is an important question, no?
The issue to which I commented was simple. The use of the words Uncle Tom was a racist label. Obama does not fit the description; far from it, actually. Do you think for one second that Nader did not know the meaning, or intent, of ‘Uncle Tom’? I said, “Will you please go away now”. It was not a comment in regards to his policies, past or present. Go away and don’t make any more public racist comments, is what I meant.
Utopia does not exist on earth. There has never been an ‘Uncle Sam’ that was all for the people. It is not possible, so Nader’s comment was ridiculous.
that obombya refused to address.
the very expensive WAR ON DRUGS.
why is it that no politician will be ending it?
could it be that they are standing in that river of cash that prohibition provides? that some of it sticks to them?
and their financiers?
this is another war that must be terminated.
it is another episode of class warfare. the upperclass whites[also blacks] do their reefer, their snow, et al and escape law enforcement scrutiny. but you be poor[white, black, hispanic, et alia] and unconnected to the establishment, and you are going to be a victim of the fascist police state.
i think that every year, the cops arrest, incarcerate[criminalize] close to a million citizens for possessing small amounts of cannabis. a plant that is probably the most benign, most healthful, ever to have come to life on this planet.
this WAR ON DRUGS must cease.
why is it that obombya is as keen on anslinger-style prohibition as senator melanoma, president buweps?
is it because of his creation by the drug lords of chicago? the latter-day al capones?
lastly, why was it that this WAR ON DRUGS was excluded from the scrutiny of these candidates during the soap opera race to the rose garden?
I am trying to reply to your comment, but that would give it a dignity to which it is not entitled.
Try some sunshine.
Nadar has been right on the issues and he is not a racist.
Obama appears to be a sellout (prefer this word to uncle tom) to progressive ideas… and one needs to look no further than his coming cabinet picks.
This is a man who want to work with the system, but spouts “change”.
The question is: what is he going to change? So much of the problem is endemic to the system which he “believes” in.
Nadar has pointed out that the corporatocracy is our problem. Is Obama part of the problem or part of the solution?
So far he is all hat and no cattle.. all rhetoric and no action. He is trading on his cool, his smarts and YES his personal “attributes”. Let’s see him challenge the status quo and really walk the walk.
Nadar may be a thorn on the side of corporate america… and say annoying and inappropriate things… but he is correct 99.9% of the time. How bout that?
i’d like to know what belafonte thinks about what nader said – because that’s what this thread is supposed to be about and not about what we think of obama.
could you give me a link so i could read about that? thanks.
more importantly, i’m not calling the guy a saint. i just didn’t (and still don’t) think his comments about obama justify this thread.
There is hypocrisy in many of the rightfully indignant comments…
on this post as their authors fail to see that their name calling and self-righteous reveling in injuring Nader through verbal beatings is the same (only worse) than what they are accusing Nader of. It is wrong to attack injustice (especially when it is not intended by its perpetrator) by inflicting much greater injustice.
Just as Nader cannot be absolved for the use of a term that so many consider racist on its face regardless of his motivations as he tried to describe office holders who might betray their own families and fellow citizens as has happened so many times before. The tragic transformation of those who eventually attain power has been described since the beginning of recorded history. The tragic hero seeks power to do good but while on their odyssey they allow themselves, gradually and unaware, to be corrupted so that when they obtain power and are no longer blocked from doing what is right, they fail to do so (a form of “learned helplessness” combined with subtle pernicious indoctrination). Any one who read more than just the term “uncle tom” knew what Nader was trying to say and it is absolutely obvious to those that know him. He believes that a number of Obama’s actions sell out the country and the American people to corporations and the moneyed elite and that large numbers of those harmed as a result are African Americans. He was saying that Obama can choose to live up to his inspiring speeches or he can sell out to, or make destructive concessions to, the powerful forces that are destroying this country (and the global community). You gave him no credit though it was obvious to you what he was trying to say.
I agree that Nader should not be absolved from criticism for needlessly using a divisive and hurtful term.
Nader is remorseless because he does not see the term as racist (he is blinded) and it is obvious that he does not realize that it is wrong (and harmful) to use the term “uncle tom” despite his honorable intentions and the truth he is trying to communicate on policies critical to the well being of our country, especially to African Americans and other minorities. Those that know or follow Nader know that above all else he wants to presuade others on the great truths he has fought for his entire adult life. He is a tragic figure, a genius blind to, and foiled by, what even a simpleton sees.
I have noticed over many years of watching Nader (and agreeing with him on almost all matters of substance) that he seems to be lacking in the kind of “social” and “emotional” intelligence that would have enabled him to be far more effective in accomplishing those things most important to him. He is somewhat like a “savant” being a genius and an admirably decent, even noble man in so many ways, but who obviously sabotages himself by just not “getting it” on many things.
We all have mountains to climb and it is an irony of life that our own mountains are often the most difficult to see.
Nader owes you and us a sincere apology. Many who have commented owe Nader and us a sincere apology. Simple as that. “Simple truths”.
With respect,
Peace,
JK
A Little perspective on Nader, a great man.
It is wrong to say that Nader doesn’t do the difficult work, or that Nader has accomplished little, or that Nader is responsible for any of the election losses of Democrats.
These are common memes by those who do not respect Nader or for their own motives want to discredit him. Scapegoating Nader benefits no one except the predators we wish to defeat.
Nader has worked harder every year of his adult life than anyone in politics and all of that work has been righteous. He has accomplished more for the American people than anyone in the US government in the past forty years.
He has saved millions of lives (literally) and helped prevent the suffering of many millions more through his initiatives and the truths he has investigated and revealed.
He is the reason for safety belts, airbags, antilock brakes, safe design of cars and hundreds of other improvements for consumers and all of us.
Without him the NHSTA would not have been created. Product Labeling, truth in advertising, safety for workers etc. The list is endless. He has sacrificed any semblance of a personal life for us, the American people, and humanity.
Though his is often a social cad, if the socially sensitive have ears to hear or eyes to see they would realize what a truly great man he is. (Flawed but truly great). Can we not, even out of self interest forgive him for his annoying disabilities?
The corporate media and the corporate government have relentlessly slimed him throughout his entire distinguished career because he has posed a greater threat to their corruption, power, greed and treasonous rule than just about anyone else.
The progressive circular firing squad loves to hate him and blame him for Gore’s 2000 loss and much more. None of this can be validated through the evidence. Gore won the election in 2000, both the popular and electoral vote. The election was stolen. The evidence for that is not just conclusive but is overwhelming. Gore won FL by over a hundred thousand votes if you take into account the wide variety of election crimes and the numbers involved. In fact, Nader brought more votes to Gore than the number of votes that Nader received in the election. Gore benefited from Nader exposing the Republicans and he adopted some of Nader’s platform.
Nader by running for president provides essential even critical truth wisdom, perspective and balance that both branches of the “Corporate Party” (Dems and Repubs) would otherwise be able to ignore and hide from the public (and do nothing about for the benefit of the people).
It is Nader and other noble truth-sayers that caused the Republicans and the Democrats to create their own debate club and take debates away from the League of Women voters (1992?). The need for these corrupt Parties to silence truth and elude from the debates entire issues of critical importance to us is obvious. If Ron Paul and Nader and the other 3rd Party candidates whose positions are much more pertinent and in line with the public had been included in the debates, the public would have been much better informed and the “Dems” and “Repubs” would have been forced to address those issues and possible take positions more in line with our interests. It is my opinion that Kucinich would have been the best president (right on all the issues) and the public might also have come to that conclusion if he hadn’t been kicked out of the race by the corporate media and the anti-democracy Debate Commission. A famous government propagandist from the first half of the 20th century said: the media “are the keys on the piano for us to play”. It seems to be a tragedy of human existence that those with the greatest truth who could be of the greatest help to the quality of our lives are not respected or championed when they could have made the difference.
Please forgive Nader and join him in his quests.
Peace,
JK
PS: Please don’t misunderstand me. I believe Obama is at heart a decent man and could be a great President but he is wrong on a number of Foreign Policy and domestic issues which could cause a great deal of suffering here and world-wide if we don’t “hold his feet to the fire” and persuade him that we have his back but he needs to modify some of his positions.
does this actually characterize any of us here? or is it a false statement?
is that actually true? do you think his intent was to undermine progressive politics? if so, why? how do you see euguene debs?
elliot (and newt) – what gives? why so much anger at someone who was correct far more often than the dem leadership has been?
word.
JK – thanks for your thoughtful comments. i didn’t get it either (how using the term “uncle tom” is racist), maybe that makes me a simpleton too. but i won’t use the term (not sure i ever have anyway) if it offends.
still it’s a bit hard for me to take some of the commentary here seriously (although i am trying) because there has been the implication that not supporting obama is racist and that i reject.
yeah. now i’m really depressed.
I find many positive things about the election. I am thrilled that America has overcome racism and selected a black man as president, regardless of his positions.
I am thrilled that so many people worked so hard to get rid of the republicans and none more than Howie Klien. But there are thousands who are nameless who worked their butts off to get the word out and get the vote out. Good on them.
We got rid of a few key criminals in this election and we will get rid of a few more in 2010. That’s trend.
We are seeing the demise of the republicans and the masters of the universe.
Can we really hope that the religious party breaks free of the old republicans and becomes more and more marginalized as a political force in America as opposed of the mindless voting bots used for the R big biz agenda. That seems to be happening. They need to run Sarah in ‘12. That would be a fun election… if we live to see it.
Nadar is not a racist and these people here don’t understand that it means a a sell out and is commonly applied to blacks such as Armstrong Williams, Condi Rice, Colon Powell, Ken Blackwell and others who suck up to corporate america’s agenda which IS RACIST. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.
to all who condemn nader – i wonder what you will have to say about obama if he does ask larry summers to be his treasury secretary.
because i am seriously wondering if this is partisan scapegoating or genuine outrage for what you see as bigotry.
The call for bipartisan is nothing but the code word for getting corporate america behind him… and that is something we do not need.
Tell me what republican positions to you support? Do you want them to embrace the progressive agenda or meet them somewhere in the middle?
I am for pressing forward with a leftist – people first agenda and could care less about corporate – property class suck up being on board. Let the chips fall where they may.
Beware of a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
From Democracy Now, last night:
It [Obama’s victory] is a breakthrough, in terms of Obama being the first African American, the first person of color, being the nation’s chief executive. But it still falls short of the kind of politics that Cynthia [McKinney] embodies, that I also share, that this is not—Obama’s victory is a victory over racism, but it is not a victory of the left. And progressives will be—have to challenge the Obama administration on all of these issues.
Selise is absolutely correct. Nader is doing exactly what Marable recommends, something very few progressives seem prepared to do–challenge Obama to govern as something other than what we already have in Pelosi and Emanuel. Rather than getting all puckered-up because Nader used the term “uncle tom”–or defending Obama from imagined [not actual] slights–progressives should, right now, be fighting for a progressive agenda.
Wake up–the transition team is already being formed up, and Pelosi is already floating statements like this.
WAKE UP
ding ding ding…. I’m (in bed) with Selise on this one. hahaha…. Is the metaphor OK?
this is exactly what i think.
it’s one thing to defend obama from right wing lies – but something else entirely to “defend” him from progressive pressure from the left.
but for folks who disagree with me on this – can we please agree that we will refrain from using bullying language with each other when we disagree? that’s a right wing tactic.
please, let us reason together in good faith. i beg you.
please, let us reason together in good faith. i beg you.
… repeated for emphasis.
It is absolutely amazing to me that a FDL poster would be agreeing with Fox News in a shallow, empty attack on Nader. Does anyone actually think that Shephard Smith/Fox News actually gives a shit about race relations, diversity or social justice in America–or any other progressive goal?
Give me a break.
Selise, check that segment on Democracy Now if you haven’t already, and Marable was also on Grit TV–excellent discussion of the need to pressure Obama from the left.
“I think he has a tin-ear regarding what constitutes acceptable contemporary discourse.”
I just get all warm and fuzzy inside when anyone in America thinks they get to decided what is “acceptable contemporary discourse.”
thanks, i will later today. naomi klein has been saying similar kinds of things (for example at the commonwealth club (realplayer or mp3 podcast).
what has me so down is not so much that there is disagreement – it’s how we are disagreeing. it’s been bad for a while, but this is just the worst. have we gotten so used to hating republicans that we find it easy to redirect it at each other?
I got a chance to see Klein recently when she passed through, and she is absolutely saying these things as well–you’re right. I do think there are going to be some strains between those who want to defend Obama no matter what, and those who want to see true change. In my view, Pelosi and Emanuel do not represent change–quite the opposite–and yet here we see Emanuel placed in the highly critical CoS position at the WH.
Progressives need to get over this victory–fast. And they need to begin fighting what is going to be a very difficult fight.
I haven’t read the whole comment thread. I put my bit in towards the beginning of the thread. I like what I’ve heard from Naomi Klein. She is constructive. I don’t see Ralph Nader as being constructive, plus, as I pointed out earlier, his Uncle Tom remark was way out of line in my opinion. Obama has proposed Emanuel for a high position. Just one more reminder that we really need to pay attention to what Obama is doing or intends to do and expressing ourselves accordingly. But, once again, I don’t see Nader as being of any help in that regard any longer. I’ve had it with Nader.
Can you tell I’m still pissed about 2004?
Ralph Nader has done a lot for ballot access. I am unfair not to give him credit for that.
We must must keep pulling Obama to the left. We have only just begun this fight.
It certainly says something that this year we in the Nader campaign pulled our weight, raised hell in money, and managed to get on the ballot in 45 states, more states than in the past!
Who was signing those petitions? I got 950 signatures myself here in Missouri, they were not republicans but strong progressives like myself who were interested in Nader’s platform. Single Payer insurance, better workplaces and the repeal of the Taft Hartley act (which after some explaining really caused some strong democrats to cross to Nader as I live in a factory town).
Did I support Obama? Yes in spirit, I was there in Grant park, I hugged my mother and I weeped with joy, at the historical moment. But I too realized that Obama’s change, is just a return to Clintonian policies of the past, and you know…what about the working class?
Jon Edwards was a powerful speaker during the primary, I come from the working poor, nowhere in Obamas speeches did I hear the mentioning of the poor, only the middle class. There is no middle class in 20 years, we’ll all be poor. Jeeze louise.
Gimme some socialism. Give it to me NOW!
Well…I would like to know that too. Although what Nader said has to do with what one may or may not think about Obama.
I’m not going to apologize for Ralph, but what he said, and what you say he said, are two very different things. He did not call Obama and Uncle Tom. He made a bad metaphor using the term perjorative term Uncle Tom. That said, Malcom X used this exact metaphor many times when discussing ”black leadership”. For examples, see:
http://people.virginia.edu/~sf…..colmX.html
Plus, really now, he’s already pretty much blacklisted. He’s not welcome on any talk shows, he’s not covered by the mainstream media, and the Democratic party and its apologists (see comments here, for instance) call him much worse that what you say he said.
Is he blunt? Yes. Unapologetic? Always. Racist in the David Duke brand of racist? Doubtful. Racist in the way white America has always been racist? Quite possibly, but even there I would argue that if anyone can truly see Americans for what they are, it’s Ralph Nader.
The piece you didn’t see the other night was when Nader did 30 minutes on Real News Network, with Paul Jay, Tom Morris from Capital Hill Blues, and Bill Fletcher from Black Commentator, where they had an excellant discussion on race, politics, Obama, and the exact point that Nader was trying to make on the quoted radio program. Is Obama going to stand up for the poor and the downtrodden, or will he pander to the middle calss, while taking care of his corporate sponsors? Valid question? I think so!To see the segment: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/11/05-8
Get some perspective folks.
Are you directing that at me? Because if you are, I would like you to point out to me where i said Nader called Obama an “Uncle Tom.”