On November 24th Klynn wrote to EW regarding her Saving Citi But Not GM:

To Washington the people must go…to make our point. After all, it is our money.

How about giving the same to “do list” to Citibank in regards to restructuring, regulation and accountability that was given to the auto industry?

Seems he reads EW… http://emptywheel.firedoglake……ent-116053

Many more comments like this, as you know JimWhite appeared at EW’s and at the Lake that week. Glad Podesta and Bloomberg caught up to us.

Let London Bridge fall.

http://www.rhymes.org.uk/londo…..g-down.htm

Try this link to EW…

Soorry. messed up the “pretty” link @ 1

Also read ReaderofTeaLeaves post below: Floods & Farmers: The Strange and Unexpected Impacts of Auto Bailouts

Unlike Citigroup – the big 2.5 actually make stuff. Unlike the crooked gamblers at Citi and the rest of those corrupt greedy idiots on Wall Street who ‘made’ their money betting on stacks of worthless paper and I really mean paper. That’s not a euphemism for an actual financial instrument – which CDSs are not.

Yes, the seers here at the Lake (especially klynn and ROTL as noted) were way ahead on this. It is great that Podesta is on the concept in the media, especially given his role in Obama transition team.

Thank you.

Meanwhile there is no oversight person functioning to oversee the $700 B
bailout. A single senator has put a hold on the nomination.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..246370.php

…Christopher Dodd, who said Washington should have struck a better deal in its rescue of Citigroup, including management changes and a greater return for taxpayers.

Washington struck exactly the deal it intended to…the one that best lines the pockets of the ultrarich.

Ah, oversight and accountability. Now what ever would make some fine law abiding corporate executives be against such a concept?

Oh Right. Never Mind.

Does Podesta mean that because Citi doesn’t have unions, neither should auto corps?

Reading through the article, I didn’t see anywhere that Podesta even mentioned unions at all. Just that management needed to be treated the same regardless of industry involved in bailouts.

I’m looking for the hidden agenda. If managements should be treated the same, why not workers?

I’d like to see these Masters of the Universe also be forced to undergo the same humiliating, degrading, utterly useless “credit counseling” that people who file bankruptcy must undergo.

And just as the bankrupt person has to pay for the privilege of the exercise, so should the CEOs who get these handouts have to pay — personally — for their re-education.

1,843 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen JimWhite and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Heads up Firepups, Josh Marshal has a post on a coalition of the opposition in Canada to dump the fascist Harper and the Tories as early as this Friday. The move is the result of the Tory response to the recession which was significant tax cuts in 2007 and a divide and conquer strategy including elimination of public financing of political parties that woulda done Karl Rove proud. It seems that the economic mess that the fascists have made in the world economy has driven some patriotic sense into non-fascists in Canada.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NOW WE GOTTA MAKE SURE THEY BASTARDS CAN’T LEAVE THE COUNTRY!!

thanks Jim!

How about equal treatment for workers, homeowners, the poor, etc?

I’d have no problems in letting the Citigroup workers organize and bring in a union.

That would probably be far more equitable than breaking the unions at the auto companies just because.

Maybe Jeb Bush will set up shadow oversight as part of his shadow government.

There still in the process of rushing to the bottom in a Shock Doctrine world. My hypothesis is that scapegoating the auto execs is a smokescreen to break up the UAW, and that leads me to turn what Posdesta said upside down.

Meanwhile, Jeb, remember Jeb?, wants the Rethugs to form a shadow conservative government to fight the Democratic agenda. Jeb appears to have done very well as a venture capitalist. I don’t remember the jowls when he was gov.

They’re, not there.

Damn, I missed your comment. I owe ya a drink.

Maybe we should create a shadow economy – call it dollar 2.0

How about a gift economy? It makes a lot more sense to me.

Well, that is primarily why so many of the Concern Troll types have been pushing for bankruptcy for the auto industry.

I just figured to turn it on its side and push to regulate the citigroups but give them unions as well.

Citizen eCAHNomics:

I always defer to yer economic analysis but I think you may be ignorin’ a bit of politics that argues against “scapegoating the auto execs as a way to break up the UAW.” Obama campaigned very openly and courageously, in this old broken down Scandanavian’s mind, for the Employee Free Choice Act and the reinvigoration of the union movement is essentail not only to rebuilding the middle class but gavanizing the Democratic Party political majorities for 50 years. I jest don’t see Obama shootin himself in the foot this early in his administration.

It’s not the concern trolls who bother me, it’s the Ds now in power. I don’t trust them, not a single one.

All the anti-union people think this is a great opportunity to kill all the unions. If this financial situation had happened 3-4 years ago we’d have seen anti-union legislation come out of Congress in a New York heartbeat.

Obama’s shot himself in the foot and told his supporters to go to hell in oh so many ways already. And if you remember how the Shock Doctine works, it allows our masters to do things to us that we wouldn’t accept if we weren’t in a state of shock. So the auto industry teetering on bankruptcy is a perfect occassion to stick it to his union supporters by saying that breaking the union contract is necessary for the survival of the U.S. economy. And who would argue that is not so against a popular new prez?

For some reason the Parable of the Dishonest Steward (Luke 16:1-8) come to mind. Rosson’s analysis (see link) adds some useful details of interpretation that offer some interesting insights into the present situation. Of course, the metaphor is not exact, but then, parables are not, strictly speaking, supposed to be metaphors anyway.

{sigh}

I wish the Democratic Party would do a better job of oversight, and y’know, like really do their homework?

Bob in HI

who would argue that is not so against a popular new prez?

Me, for one. And not with a fuckin’ sternly worded letter, either.

I’m just saying he’d get away with it with nary a budge in his approval rating. Actually the “real” Americans have grown to hate anyone else of their level who has stuff they don’t (while simultaneously loving those who took it away), Obama’s approval rating might even go up if he insisted the UAW contract be broken in the interest of national economic security.

I agree with that. Lot of non-thinkers out there.

Well, one thing is sure. We’ll know about the fate of the auto industry and the UAW contract before the end of the year.

there’s a couple of congressional committee hearings scheduled for this week (thursday and friday, iirc) on the auto industry plan for a bailout we may get more of an idea then….

Which committees, meaning who are the chairs and ranking members?

Me, for one. And not with a fuckin’ sternly worded letter, either.

lol. did you see the one from ed markey to cox at the sec (from october but i just found it a few days ago)?

It would be equal to me if every person who filed a tax return in 2007 got a check for $10,000 from our government to stimulate the economy. Hey, it’s our money and one thing the right wingers are always saying is, “It’s our money!”!

No, gotta link?

senate banking and house finance (dodd and frank), iirc. will go check my notes now…. (also, if no one beats me to it i plan post morning diaries the mornings of days of the hearings).

be right back with that too….

If it ever happens, you’ll know the deflation has gotten serious.

Damn, I could pay off my student loan with that and have a little pocket personality left over.

Thanks.

Throw $$ at Detroit automakers.

Hope for the best.

My 2001 Honda CR-V runs better than any Detroit auto.

“It’s our money!”, said the wingers in unison!

Speaking of deflation, right winger Howie Carr was on his radio show today (out of Boston) spouting off in the first hour about how McDonald’s has gone up .19 cents on it’s $1 double-cheeseburger. Apparently to Howie, since we are in deflation mode, it’s absurd that McDonald’s is not playing along! LOL

Citizen eCAHNomics:

Obama is NOT gunna break a rock in the foundation of his political coalition and, in my opinion, the Congressional Black Caucus would bolt if he lets the Big Three restructure. Let’s see what the auto big shots come up with this week, in my dottering mind, if the auto companies are gunna go to bankruptcy and Obama wants to try and get out from under the political ramifications, they will do it before Christmas so it falls on ALL the lame ducks (how appropriate.).

I know. Me too. We all could use it. In some cases, it’s not enough money, but I think it would give everyone a sigh of relief for awhile.

The wingers are probably dissapointed that they didn’t get St. Reagan’s image on all coins and currency when they had total power. They also would have liked it on union members’ unemployment checks.

from my notes (hope you don’t mind that i pimp the timeline i’ve posted).

October 1, 2008 – Representative Markey sent a sternly worded letter to SEC chair Cox:

I am writing you as the principle House author of H.R.3657, the Market Reform Act of 1990, a bill which President George H.W. Bush signed into law on October 16, 1990 (se Public Law 101-432).

This legislation was enacted by Congress to address many of the concerns that had been raised regarding the stability of our nation’s securities markets in the aftermath of the October 1987 Crash, the October 1989 “mini Crash,” and the failure of Drexel Burnham following the collapse of the junk bond market. At the time this bill was signed into law, the-SEC Chairman Richard Breeden noted that the risk assessment language “creates a system of information and oversight over the parents and other affiliates of broker-dealers, therby giving the Commission ‘early warning’ of potential danger signs.”

I am writing you to express my strong concern that the Commission’s appalling failure to implement this provision of hte Market Reform Act. I am also dismayed to learn that instead of vigorously administering and enforcing this law, the SEC instead created a largely toothless and ineffectual voluntary “Consolidated Supervised Entity Program.” This program turned out to be completely inadequate and inconsistent with the intent of Congress in passing the Market Reform Act.

I believe the SEC’S inexcusable regulatory failure in this entire area has contributed to the current problems roiling our nation’s financial markets. The Commission’s failure has now necessitated a massive federal government intervention into the financial services industry. I request that the Commission explain, in specific terms, what actions it now intends to take in response to this situation.

I hope you are right. I really really do. As I said on another thread, I’m no fan of auto corps or UAW, but the implications of what it would mean for the future of U.S. labor if the Ds chose this occassion to break it is really disastrous. And I have learned in the past 8 years to trust no one, and in the past 2 years to make sure that dictum is applied to Ds.

It’s so amazing to me when I’m able to peer into the mind of a neocon (such as Howie Carr) to see what it is that makes them tick and what they would form armed militias over. Double cheeseburgers is this week’s dissenting mania!

*shaking head*

I’m telling you….if there are nuclear bombs going off in our country, the right wingers will be blaming the liberals for it and will chant, “The War on Christmas caused this! The War on Christmas caused this!”, or something stupid and pathetic as that.

Yessiree, bob, that’ll make ‘em stand up and take notice, by golly. JHFC.

senate banking:
12/04/08 – 10:00 am – The State of the Domestic Automobile Industry: Part II

house financial services:
12/05/08 – 9:30 am – Review of Industry Plans to Stabilize the Financial Condition of the American Automobile Industry

Oh, and I have learned since Obama got the nomination to make sure the dictum applies to him.

Hey, thats a future Limpy Limbaugh show.

I’m sure! LOL

i have trouble seeing that happening so soon in obama’s presidency too. but no matter how cynical i am, it never seem to be quite enough

will be glad to have a reason not to cheer though, so here’s hoping. but keeping my eyes open too….

Why can’t they hold these hearings after I get off work? Now I’ll have to watch all the interesting body language after it’s all over. *g*

Citizen eCAHNomics:

“Obama’s shot himself in the foot and tols his supporters to go to hell in so many ways already.”

I’m missin’ sumpthin here…has Obama taken office yet? If he wanned ta break the unions he woulda stood mute when they came to Washington two weeks ago, encouragin’ them to go to the courts…again, I ain’t an economist but I know a bit about politics and I think he has successfully called the Big Three’s bluff. We’ll see by the end of this week.

By the way, did a see the shot from TPM on the Canadian political response to fascist economics…Parliment is takin it to Harper on C-Span.

i’m sure. that one struck me as a particularly good example of the species “sternly worded letter” *g*

and i won’t have your soothing company while i watch them live. i consider it a major accomplishment that i haven’t put my fist through anything from all the congress watching.

The list is long. Here’s a couple: FISA, govt funds for religious orgs, mother’s mental health not relevant in abortion, Lieberman. Is Obama a man of his word? Doesn’t seem so.

Oh, and as you point out, NFT, he’s not even prez yet. Think of the possibilities once he gets the unitary prez crown!

Parliment is takin it to Harper on C-Span.

thanks. just turned it on…. wow. is that what an opposition sounds like?

Here’s my most favorite Union video endorsing Barack Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1nSyWJ7m0

I hope Barack has seen it. Maybe he’s reading FDL tonight!

I saw that roughly at the time. It’s a keeper. Thanks for reminding.

Citizen eCAHNomics:

Respectfully, Citisen eCAHN, none of what you have mentioned coulda been changed by Obama at the time…NONE of it includin’ FISA. The only position in our system that effects change by decision is the President…none of what you mentioned would’ve changed INCLUDING FISA if Obama had taken another political position and, in my pre-senile mind, if he had taken a couple of those positions we ALL here cried for, he probably wouldn’t be President-elect.

There ya go selise…they don’t look like Democrats in opposition do they??!!

i disagree about fisa – that one had been well settled in march and the dems had won the argument.

they don’t look like Democrats in opposition do they??!!

have i ever see the Democrats in opposition? *g*

Gosh there is more than four people in the chamber

Lieberman was after the election & absolutely no reason for Obama to suck up to him.

you’re right! i was just listening, but now watching (in response to your comment)… wow wow wow.

Dang, missed my very first front page. I’ll even have to wait a few hours to read all the comments, but thanks to everyone who contributed!

Thanks to you for highlighting Podesta’s article. I just hope he means what he sez.

ew has a post up now about how gates gives obama cover to gutting defense. i don’t understand.

thanks for your post. nice to hear someone in obama’s administration say what we’ve been thinking and typing…

Good of Podesta to say so but if Obama and the Democrats had not given away the store with the Paulson bailout, Paulson wouldn’t have the leeway to get away with this.

Unlike the crooked gamblers at Citi and the rest of those corrupt greedy idiots on Wall Street who ‘made’ their money betting on stacks of worthless paper and I really mean paper. That’s not a euphemism for an actual financial instrument – which CDSs are not.

That has been, however, a key to the incredibly quick growth in the financial industry’s profits in the past couple of decades.

Read _The_Funny_Money_Game_ by Andrew Tobias. It explains today’s bubbles quite well and was written recently … in 1971.

Good of Podesta to say so but if Obama and the Democrats had not given away the store with the Paulson bailout, Paulson wouldn’t have the leeway to get away with this.

And if the Dems had not given Paulson the bailout Obama might not have gotten elected.

I guess the really idiotic Libs who want everything are also willing to have nothing. Well, we went through the Reagan & Bush administrations getting NOTHING and that was pretty crappy.

I really don’t know what to add. Libs just seem to have a strong desire to shoot themselves in the foot over and over. It’s unreal. We’ve got a Dem president. Enjoy it if you can.

Respectfully, Citisen eCAHN, none of what you have mentioned coulda been changed by Obama at the time…NONE of it includin’ FISA.

Your don’t only undertake the battles you can win. His oath of office is to uphold the U.S. Constitution, regardless of political expediency.

The hallmark of a great politician is performing your public duty, and being able to convince, rile, and prod other public servants to do theirs. The hallmark of a despot is doing whatever it takes to get into and stay in power.

And if the Dems had not given Paulson the bailout Obama might not have gotten elected.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a gymnast master the uneven bars like you just did.

In what parallel universe does a politician lose an election (beyond the point where contributions from the wealthy are relevant) when he stands up and promotes the will of the electorate who were overwhelmingly opposed to the bailout?

Going by the numbers of public support for the legislation you’d be much more reasonable in extrapolating he may have lost votes due to the bailout, not gained them.

Note to eCAHNomics and Hugh: more than likely what we’re facing politically here is the backlash to the Bush era producing identity politics on the other side. 30%ers on the right, and 30%ers on the left. The problem becomes that you have 60% of the people in an immutable team mentality, leaving 40% splintered amongst themselves to be hurled back and forth between the extreme support of the aforementioned sides.

hopefully not immutable.

I’ve seen this troll before. Same ol’ crap.

I assume that Citibank workers will now get the same wages and benefits as auto workers? I assume Citibank has a business plan that shows how they will pay us back with interest.
Also Fuck The Treasury Dept they can’t make deals like this without Congress we can change this deal if we want.
If they argue we can publicly say on TV that Citibank will not get a penny more. That should crash the stock.