Now for the hard part. How to connect the sites for meaningful discussions. If there’s no way to reach some sort of agreement, the various sites become a bunch of blogs with comments. On FDL, there’s an effort in this direction with a variety of connected blogs, but the reach is neither broad nor effective. It’s preaching to the choir. When someone speaks of netroots, I’m assuming they mean organizing phone calls, faxes to congresspeople. That doesn’t work, but perhaps people need more proof. There’s also a problem of trust. No one wants to agree to some sort of demonstration on line and show up to find he or she is alone.

People seek leaders, but that’s not the way to go. We need to develop a voice as citizens. It’s not a matter of finding someone to elect who we hope represents our interests. We have to figure out a way to represent ourselves.

BTW I think Obama had to vote for the bailout, but perhaps in his heart of hearts he wants the house to ditch it. It’s impossible to know or tell at this juncture just as it’s impossible for him to lobby representatives to defeat the plan. Maybe he’ll fix it when he’s elected. He’s vague, but that’s politics. Get too specific and you’re dead.

i was also very surprised by the lack of live threads during the day on the hearings and congressional floor actions. but there was no problem with us live blogging events as OT during the threads and many of us tried to do some of that. so i’m grateful for the place we have and if the people we’d expect to lead on this issue did not – then i guess that’s a message for us to adjust our leader based thinking and find other ways to organize actions.

this is one of those times i think the secrecy and lack of transparency around the townhouse listserv (or others like it) works against us.

but i still have far more questions than answers. and the more i thing about these things, the more i think i don’t know or have had wrong.

maybe the oxdown diaries will be a way to self organize more? as we are doing here in continuing the conversation?

…so, while i can’t get behind the plan itself without knowing more (and indeed knowing more may cause me to reject it), i do support the process of deliberation that they are attempting to use.

how to fight back in the midst of a shock doctrine panic is, i think, something above and beyond the fisa fight. and something that i’m now convinced we need to give lots of thought to – not just for this issue, but for all the ones i expect they are going to attempt on us (and my “they” included obama and the democrats).

Well said.

(my bold)

generally, i agree that market price (and not some made up maturity price) should be used. but right now there is no market. i think that’s rational, because no one knows what’s being sold. paper chasing paper is what it looked like to me.

so, imo, the solution has to include some way to make a market, but a market that is based on something real. not the valuation on the upside of the bubble which was totally divorced from the underlying contracts – but also not the valuation on the downside of the bubble which is also totally divorced from reality.

this is what markets are supposed to be able to do for us – find a rational price. but during bubbles (on the upside as well as on the downside) that’s not the case.

hugh has suggested one way to do that, i expect there are others. but whatever method is used, that i think those details are what makes or breaks the first item on the progressive caucus plan. and i just haven’t seen any details on it.

so, while i can’t get behind the plan itself without knowing more (and indeed knowing more may cause me to reject it), i do support the process of deliberation that they are attempting to use.

how to fight back in the midst of a shock doctrine panic is, i think, something above and beyond the fisa fight. and something that i’m now convinced we need to give lots of thought to – not just for this issue, but for all the ones i expect they are going to attempt on us (and my “they” included obama and the democrats).

But I do not lead this blog.

I am simply focused on the needed netroots power (in this case, lack there of) to organize on probably the most important issue to face our desires as a sovereign nation since our founding.

Yet, I am still excited by the efforts of Lloyd Doggett and others to put forward a plan based on government purchase of mortgages (as in the FDR plan that worked!) instead of sliced and diced securities. Think I’ll go see if that has come to a complete proposal yet.

JimWhite,

We need to organize around this NOW. Ian did do a good job yesterday pointing to the plans that are organizing around Isaac’s and Galbraith’s suggestions and encouraging calls.

With FISA, it was quite mobilizing to go from blog to blog and read a unifying voice on the issues. That Strangebedfellows issued the same calls on the FISA concerns.

There is power in the leadership of Jane, Christy, EW, Glenn G and others. even if economic concerns are not their specialty, they have influence to bring a unified voice.

An unorganized citizenry on big issues is a “lack of power” legislators count on.

Part of my influence in my thought…I am reading Joseph Ellis’ Founding Brothers right now.

Yet, I am still excited by the efforts of Lloyd Doggett and others to put forward a plan based on government purchase of mortgages (as in the FDR plan that worked!) instead of sliced and diced securities. Think I’ll go see if that has come to a complete proposal yet.

maybe i’m wrong, but i see the problem as one where many (most?) progressives who identify as democrats think pushing for something different that what the dem leadership wants is unhelpful to their goal of winning in november. ie – don’t say anything that might make the dems looks bad.

if that’s the case, i’ve been brain dead on what to do about it. although late tuesday night i decided that what i was doing was just making things worse and my very early new years resolution is to try to focus mostly on just providing information and attention to the issue.

but i’m definitely open to suggestions if you have any.