Thanks for posting this Pach

the most disappointing vote of the day.

Here is what Hank Johnson said, at this point I have a lot more respect for him than for Donna Edwards. Not that I never had respect for him before, lots of respect for him. He is a great rep. in the district next to mine.

I wonder if Obama tried to twist his arm too.

Hank is a true progressive.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list…..2_nay.html

~~ WASHINGTON — Congressman Hank Johnson today released the following statement after Congress’ vote on the economic bailout bill:

“Without giving serious thought to workable alternatives, I simply cannot support a bill that further burdens the taxpayer and does nothing to address the economy from the bottom-up. Like every American, I know that we must find a way to fix Wall Street and protect our nation’s economy. I remain deeply frustrated that the President’s bill which I voted against, for the second time in less than a week, was the only option on the table.”

“I remain in agreement with many of the greatest economic minds in the country that there are alternatives to this acutely flawed bill — yet none of those alternatives were even considered. In a debate as serious as this, I find it profoundly disturbing that there was one, and only one, option.”~~

Very disappointing.

And if the usual dance commences in January and this stuff doesn’t get cleaned up; if Obama and the Congressional “leadership” don’t fulfill their promises to correct the bankruptcy abuses and allow for mortgages to be re-worked, Congresswoman Edwards may come to ruy this vote more than any other.

I thought we helped elect Donna Edwards to stand firm for working people and the poor. Who, incidentally, got absolutely no direct relief in this bill.

Will the 110th Congress come back after November 4th to right the wrongs of omission in this Wealthfare™ bill? That’s what I would have pressed for had I been there; perhaps Donna Edwards received such assurances.

Please, please, please: not another disappointment.

After speaking with Senator Barack Obama yesterday and with many of our retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners, I am convinced today that even left with this imperfect product, the choice is this or nothing.

Wait… in addition to Barack Obama, many retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners were also trying to convince her that the choice was this or nothing?

Maybe I’m just not reading that right…

I’m not defending her vote but if her constituents (those holding 401k’s, retirements accounts, small business owners etc) actually felt that this bill was the lesser of two evils. She had to choose what would serve her constituency best. She is not some self serving politician who does the bidding of special interest or has this vote now changed that perception?
Wasn’t she the hero of FISA?

That is what I read and how I interpret it

I am so disappointed in many Senators and Reps. Jon Tester voted against – he’s my guy! Our other Senator and Rep voted for. Boo!

There are lots of really good alternatives out there, even Michael Moore had a better one!

We should get the same deal Warren Buffet made with Goldman Sachs. Do what George Soros recommends.

Gather a council of REAL economists and discuss this. Most of these idiots in Congress don’t know what a ‘credit default swap’ is, let alone how to ‘unravel’ one of them. And no one knows what those things are worth right now.

Again, the very people who got us into this mess are the ones now in charge of ‘cleaning it up’. Get real!

Paulson should be fired if anyone is. And Bernanke too. Get someone who has NO financial ties to any of these institutions – but someone who really DOES know what a credit default swap is. Let them talk to their peers, and come up with something better.

oops that was for radish @ 6

just saw on Keith…SARAH PAIN…SIGNED UP FOR Uncle Knuties
GOPAC TRAINING in 2005…i shit you not

Couldn’t the House have voted against this bill and rehashed another one? I’m blaming the House for this mess, because it all rested on their shoulders no matter what the Senate did or didn’t do.

One good thing: US Congressman Mike Michaud of Maine voted TWICE this week against this bill no matter what form it came in. I am so proud he represents the voice of the people in our part of the state. He made us so proud!

On the other hand…

US Congressman Tom Allen voting in favor for this bill knowing that he’s trying to unseat Sen. Susan Collins who also represents the same part of the state Mike Michaud does….was political suicide for him. I called his office 5 times in the past week or so and called his office today. I reminded them (told this to another person 2 days ago) that the bill adds $150,000,000,000 to a $700,000,000,000 bill. It didn’t matter what I said. I even pointed out the politics of it and told him/them that Democrats need to have A GOOD LEAD IN THE SENATE COME JANUARY 2009, so Allen should vote against it, because of the race he’s in. Again, it didn’t matter.

The House of Reps. is to blame. The Senators voting in favor of this bill on Wednesday were sending it back to the House. Maybe they wanted to scare the House into doing nothing again to stall the process? Could be, but the House wasn’t listening.

The race from here on in will be interesting. If the Democrats lose seats we’ll just have to remember the chips have been thrown and they are laying where they belong.

After 8 years of George Bush & Dick Cheney, some have learned nothing. They continue to trust these assholes.

Unforgivable.

My job is a little more secure today thanks to this bill. I’m by no means some billionaire. I contract at mortgage company that never got involved in the sub prime mess, however the repercussions has had a devastating effect on the price of the stock. Last Thursday 8% of the workforce got let go.

I can’t remember who said it but their proposal started with just declare those ‘credit default swaps’ null and void. No one really knows how they work exactly, they are just a gamble on a gamble on a gamble house of cards and who cares if the people who bet on them lose. The average person did not have an investment in this crap anyway.

Paulson and Bush talking all this fear-mongering crap did more to cause that drop in the DOW than anything. The market reacts irrationally to crap these people say and reacts in opposite ways to what the conventional wisdom would say it should. So they should STFU!

Much as I don’t like McSlime – the idea of a commission looks pretty good to me. It would be made up of real economists – and they would have maybe two-three weeks to work and report back a proposal. Anything they could come up with would surely be better than that 3-page joke that Paulson/Bush presented.

This is important to consider….what Brad Sherman says happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

Maybe it is all about money? Donna Edwards got our money from all over the Internet, now she doesn’t have to listen to us.

Whether it’s Sarah Palin or Donna Edwards, they all talk through their assholes.

Both of my house critters voted against the bailout on Monday, and, then voted for it today… I’m at a loss for words…! 8-(

Maybe there is one good thing in this clusterf**k of a Congress. If they are so blasted eager to go along with just about anything the President proposes – if we can get Obama elected and then really lean on him to propose some better legislation – it should fly through. Right?

Did they get some of the ’sweeteners’?

omg

Ohio woman, 90, shoots self during eviction;

Fannie Mae forgives loan
Buzz up!Like this story? Share it with Yahoo! Buzz
Two days after a 90-year-old Ohio woman shot herself as deputies tried to evict her from her foreclosed home, Fannie Mae has decided to forgive the delinquent loan and give her the house outright, CNN reports.

“We’re going to forgive whatever outstanding balance she had on the loan and give her the house,” said Fannie Mae spokesman Brian. “Given the circumstances, we think it’s appropriate.”

Addie Polk of Akron is listed in critical condition at Akron General Medical Center. She shot herself at least twice in the upper body Wednesday afternoon as sheriff’s deputies came to evict her from the house she has lived in since 1970. CNN has video of a neighbor describing what he saw.

“There’s a lot of people like Miss Polk right now. That’s the sad thing about it,” said Akron City Council President Marco Sommerville.”They might not be as old as her, some could be as old as her. This is just a major problem.”

CNN explains Polk’s story:

This is why my angered is somewhat tempered. We have no idea how far reaching this truly is and it may be that they had way more information than the rest of us. I don’t know

Here’s what one of the commenters said below the video:

“i just want everyone to know, that those mother f&ckers are LAUGHING AT US RIGHT NOW!
The people spoke with thousands of emails and phone calls, etc … and they said: FUCK YOU SLAVE HA HA HA! It might as well be the gambino family in the white house, we’d never know the difference! US tax payers need to FIRE EVERY SINGLE F&CKING SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN WHO VOTED FOR THIS BILL!
REMEMBER THEIR NAMES WHEN YOU WALK INTO THE VOTING BOOTH THIS NOVEMBER!”

In the Allen v. Collins race here in Maine, Herb Hoffman is looking very good right now:

http://www.hoffmanforsenate.us/

I don’t know. She (Donna Edwards) was just heralded as the hero of FISA and now today she is a villain.

we can sound so schizophrenic as a group (progressives) sometimes

If I’m not mistaken Barack Obama mentioned this woman along with another Senator on Wednesday in their Senate speeches.

After speaking with Senator Barack Obama yesterday and with many of our retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners, I am convinced today that even left with this imperfect product, the choice is this or nothing.

Wait… in addition to Barack Obama, many retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners were also trying to convince her that the choice was this or nothing?

If you read her statement (first quote) closely, that’s not what she’s saying. She says she spoke with them, not which way they told her to vote (or any reference at all to what they said).

Not that I could readily identify… However, so many were piled on, it’ll take awhile to find any…!

Hmm here is a link to his speech but I don’t see her name, just leadership is mentioned

oh damn…so sad

Freddie and Fannie promptly forgave her mortgage debt. I kid you not.

(CNN) — Fannie Mae said it will set aside the loan of a woman who shot herself as sheriff’s deputies tried to evict her from her foreclosed home.

Addie Polk, 90, of Akron, Ohio, became a symbol of the nation’s home mortgage crisis when she was hospitalized after shooting herself at least twice in the upper body Wednesday afternoon.
On Friday, Fannie Mae spokesman Brian Faith said the mortgage association had decided to halt action against Polk and sign the property “outright” to her.

“We’re going to forgive whatever outstanding balance she had on the loan and give her the house,” Faith said. “Given the circumstances, we think it’s appropriate.”

Thanks so much for posting that.

I read it earlier via montag, who no longer comments at FDL, but was one of my faves. Toobz are being funky, so I can’t seem to post the link, but his blog spot is ” THE BURNED OVER DISTRICT”

Radish didn’t use the word ‘vote’, she used the same wording Edwards did ‘convince’ The question is what form did this convincing take? Was it telling her how to vote or her being swayed by their stories?

wait wait…verify before you get mad. That is how we roll as liberals. we do the fact check just to make sure. I didn’t see her name posted in his speech but I may have overlooked it

Goering:

“But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Goebbels:

““If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Pretty much sums up how everything has been extracted from Congress…and the people.

I’m mad about the fact that we are even in this crappy position but how much about this do we really know? They were briefed on the issues, we weren’t. I wish the whole thing had been laid out to the american people because we have the right to know but another 159,000 jobs lost this month, more folks losing their homes, peoples’ 401k’s skidding, etc. so I understand the fear. I don’t know folks, this truly is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t

Looking at the vote (here), I’m convinced (although it’s sheer speculation) that those Dems in competitive races received dispensation to vote against the bill.

Edwards, being in a safe district (over 70% Dem, IIRC), probably received no such dispensation. Pressure from your party’s Presidential candidate (which makes him the de facto party leader), and who also quite probably will be the next President, would be very difficult to resist.

This does not, however explain Allen’s yes vote.

I think it is way too soon to write off Donna Edwards.

I met his Mom at the State Dem convention a few years ago while I was trying to get delegates to sign petitions

Really nice lady

Nice of them not to kick a 90 year old woman out but what about the others? Winter is coming.

Democrats don’t like Democrats. Remember that. LOL

I would love to put a microscope on the underworld of the United States to see what has happened in the dark for the past 230 years when Americans were sleeping. I bet I would be shocked. Seems to me whatever the power in the underworld (or Secret Society) is, it is strong and it seems to have peaked over the past 8 years. Something larger is going on (New World Order). I wonder what is really in store for us? Even with Obama in office, the Democrats (if they have a sizable lead in the House & Senate) it appears will work against him. Money is the root of all evil, but I want to know what our Reps. have been promised for them to act the way they do.

I am convinced today that even left with this imperfect product, the choice is this or nothing.

That must have been a really difficult decision… Considering literally no other options seem to have remotely been considered!

Maybe people should “squat”. Is there a way to do that these days?

Thanks Wobbly for this. I thought Obama was one of the Senators who mentioned this woman (or maybe it’s another woman).

I do too and the speculation as to why she flipped that she caved to presidential pressure after she called him out on FISa does not compute.

Squatting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting

The point is she used the passive voice, she “was convinced.” There is therefore no indication of the source of her conviction, i.e., who convinced her.

Amazing that in an ostensible ‘democracy’ that there were found to be but two options: ‘this’ or nothing.

The two choices share more than might, at first, be apparent.

Both suggest a paucity of genuine thought or ‘effort’, and both, by any reasonably objective consideration of what is actually needful, are, in a word; Pathetic.

Considering that so much has been left out of ‘this’, one must conclude that either the Congress does not care to do any better, or, as has been suggested on other threads here, today, ‘incentives’, ranging from gentle arm-twisting to a suggestion that martial law would be imposed on the Congress by its own leadership (This is not to be confused with, martial law, declared by the President, but rather as a method of suspending ‘normal’ Congressional procedure and literally forcing a vote.)

At the moment, nothing done in the last several days reflects well upon the legislative branch. And while press releases are well and good, as a means of ‘explanation’, perhaps Congresswoman Edwards might consider spending some time visiting us, here at the lake, to reassure us that
at least some of us (myself included) have failed utterly to understand
what has happened and why the ‘choices’ faced by Congress were so limited.

Perhaps there are provisions in those 400-plus pages which address EVERY SINGLE THING we are concerned about?

I quess my biggest question is why did Congress agree to a Hobson’s Choice scenario?

My second question is what does Congress (or Congresswoman Edwards)intend to do to address any of those concerns, which have been clearly, and repeatedly, put forth by knowledgable people on these Firedoglake threads?

I wonder if there will be any answers?

People are squatting in abandoned foreclosed homes out here in calif and let’s face it, who is buying homes right now? So shoot, I say squat

But you don’t know that. You are making some assumptions to get to that point.

Good point.

Or Adverse possession:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession

no problem

But you don’t know that. You are making some assumptions to get to that point.

I don’t want to get into a pissing contest here, but I know what I read. If passive voice is used, the actor (convincer in this case) is unstated. That’s just a fact. No assumptions necessary.

let’s hope so. the only way to make sure is to stay on them about it.

No pissing here. You are taking a comment she made to the media and extrapolating that her choice of passive voice somehow indicates something more (which it may)when there is no way of saying that with the certainty you are asserting unless she says so.

Asserting that it is a fact which is patently false unless she says or there is some witness that states she was in fact pressured to change her vote by the higher ups/ constituency, etc.

Sorry, I hit the submit button before I was done

“”After speaking with Senator Barack Obama yesterday and with many of our retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners, I am convinced…”

After the Wall Street bailout vote today, the House voted on lengthening unemployment benefits. It passed I believe. See? They’re working hard for us. *rolling eyes* I’m not against this, but to me, this means the Wall Street bailout was a bailout and to make it up to the American people, they wanted to extend those getting two thirds of their pay, you know, the income that hasn’t gone up in an economy where there are not jobs. Nice. A slap in the face in the form of a birthday cake.

She really should elaborate on that. Seems her use of passive voice is preventing us from parsing her words to find out what the heck happened

1,783 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Pachacutec and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Please will someone tell me how this bill makes Obama and any Democrat who voted for it a corporate fascist who somehow is gunna personally benefit??!! This was the real fascists’ last grab for what’s left of the public treasury and was an IED on the political roadside to provide a “game changer” for fascist candidates for reelection…now, unless someone ken tell me that the authorization of $700 billion in this bill is gunna break the treasury and make it impossible for the new administration ta reconstruct the economy, reinstitute economic oversight and regulation, create a new healthcare finance system and keep us from gettin the fuck outta Iraq…well unless you ken prove that ta me, stop shootin’ our buddies in the foxhole.

Jesus H. Christ, it seems like every generation what’s left of the left in this country commits hari kari in the street in prime time…there was absolutely no chance that a progressive bill would have ever made it outta either house of congress before the election and even if one did the clusterfuck would veto it and retire ta Paraguay after Crazy John McCain is inaugurated. My God, to dump all over a progressive like Donna Edwards and ignore the real bastards responsible is like cuttin off yer leg because ya got an ingrown toenail.

I am tired of people who profess ta advance the interests of the common people by cuttin the legs off of real progressives like Donna Edwards…wake up and smell the coffee FDLers. The Rovian jujitsu by the Friedmanbots was countered by Obama and like all else that has come out of this fascist administration it’s gunna cost us somethin’ but we still have the deed ta the farm.

Keep your eyes on the prize here, there are a hell of a lot more of us than there are of them but the prize is state power and killin’ off your troops because they don’t pass a loyalty test is nuthin short of stupid. We are all “fellow travelers” here…my God, I have seen the enemy and he ain’t Barak Obama or Donna Edwards or me but I ain’t sure about the rest of you!!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND DON’T PISS IN YER OWN SHOES!!

Sounds to me like Obama said vote yes, and she did.

But then why didn’t she cave on FISa? My issue is why is she being vilified after she was such the FISA hero? I don’t get it

I just read that a few mins. ago

$700 BILLION dollars to the sharks who were going to evict her

I am incensed! Beyond incensed!

Addie Polk, 90, was being treated at Akron General Medical Center after shooting herself Wednesday as deputies were at her door with eviction papers, U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, said Friday during floor debate on the rescue plan for U.S. financial markets. Fannie Mae (NYSE:FNM) foreclosed Polk’s home after acquiring the mortgage in 2007.

Kucinich used Polk’s circumstances as he spoke against the rescue plan that eventually passed the U.S. House of Representatives 263-171.

“This bill does nothing for the Addie Polks of the world,” Kucinich said. “This bill fails to address the fact that millions of homeowners who are facing foreclosure.”

http://www.informationclearing…..e20940.htm

Does this mean she is a bad progressive now?

I agree with you. I don’t blame Obama. This whole shebang was contrived by Bushco. I trust that Obama has a plan, but he can’t do very much until he’s in office, and then he can change things. This administration is dangerous, and until they are gone, no one is safe. They must go. JMHO

Not really.

Al Wynn would have voted with Steny on FISA and on the bailout, both times. Donna is still a huge net win for liberals.

Ms Edwards,

With all due respect, this was not the ONLY option with respect to getting the economy working for americans. There were MANY proposals, such as those of Rep Kucinich, Sen Sanders, and several economists, just to name a few.

And there was no urgency that could not have been address with a less drastic and less pork ladened bill.

You have disappointed the people who had so much faith in you. I suggest you hang out with Sen Sanders and Rep Kucinich and get a clue.

SanderO

I think everyone is just overall pissed off by any number of shit this administration has done and we’re all just frustrated.

They’ve been threatened!!! Brad Sherman clearly tells what happened.

more and better Democrats, more and better Bailouts, more and better wars in Pakistan and Iran!

but most importantly, maybe a center-right Supreme Court Justice or two!

Hmmm, “Let them eat cake”.(?)

I know Marie prolly didn’t say it, but it does kind of convey the sentiments in the air today, Kay.

;~D

I agree. We have to keep our heads.

thanks for answering *g*

Threatened by who, LS? the dem presidential candidate? The constituents? That was who we were discussing

Personally, I still love Barack. He will be great for America no matter what shape it’s in come January. It’s just disappointing to me that Tom Allen who is in the fight of his life to unseat incumbent Sen. Susan Collins, decided to shoot himself in the foot! Dumb move. He had plenty of room to vote against this bill today, but didn’t. Dumb, dumb, dumb, stupid move.

I’m just saying there is no way to know, from her statement, who convinced her or how she was convinced. That’s all I’m saying here. I don’t think you can determine from the previous clause that “many retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners were also trying to convince her that the choice was this or nothing.” The previous clause is not determinative at all, although it may (or may not) have been designed to infer that interpretation.

we do. we can’t fracture.

Looks like we are now saying the same thing.

words sometimes get in the way of ideas *g*

Exactly! Let them eat cake was their attitude today. They gave almost a trillion dollars to Wall Street and then said, “To make it up to the American people, we’re gonna extend their unemployment by 13 weeks” (or however long it was they voted on today).

Nice move. Very even. Spit.

You’re welcome.

Watch the video at my comment 15. Paulson and Bushco are the threateners.

Wobbly, I keep adding a smiley face to my comments to you, but on Oxdown, they don’t appear! LOL Rereading my comments makes me appear to be very short & pissy. *g*

Do they we’re stupid? A choice between this or nothing? That’s a false setup. Of course there were other things that could be done. And we have no idea whether this actually help anything other than the coffers that the wealthy have already accumulated at our expense.

This vote is a betrayal. My congressman will not get my vote in the next election.

Barbara Lee voted for it (she voted against before). Unbelievable.

well that is a matter all together different. We were trying to dissect Edwards statement.

I’m not surpirsed the the repubs would resort to threatening. It has been their MO the whole time

Citizen LS:

Ah, yer voice is like a fresh breeze and a drink from a mountain stream. I am absolutely flabbergasted by the propensity of some on the left ta snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in some perverse sense of ideological purity.

Keep the faith LS and if ya need any fresh hope go out and canvas for Obama…there are a whole lotta little folks out there who are puttin their faith in Obama and the Democrats.

(((Kay))) they didn’t come off as pissy at all *g* but thanks for clarifying it just in case.

I believe all of them…were pressured by threats to pass the bill. That explains Edwards’ statement. At least it does to me….*g*

McCain is not an option

I am sorry, but the excuse that Obama convinced her is a poor excuse. Progressives aren’t that “schizophrenic” when evaluating how their representatives behave. The problem is that our representatives fail to fight for their stated principles—the ones they stated were our principles.

We aren’t the schizophrenics. We desire some consistency in our representatives.

Obama may ultimately get my vote, but will be like Edwards vote for the bailout: with no professed enthusiasm. And it this point, Nader/Gonzales is looking a whole lot better to me.

Here’s what I noticed today:

Before the vote took place, the DOW was @ +300,

Then the vote happened, it passed, and the DOW started dropping quickly,

George Bush came out to give a speech and the DOW went back up to +150,

And then after he told his child, Wall Street, that everything was going to be okay….

The DOW ended the day close to -160.

What does this mean!!!!

That may be the case if so, I sure she they would tell us.

I think they are in a situation where they have to lay low until we get the criminals out of office. I don’t think people understand how incredibly dangerous Bushco is…don’t get me goin’. *g* JMHO

Norske;

I agree with your general drift, I’m just in favor of letting Congress and Obama know, ahead of time, that we are going to help them a lot, by making them do what needs to be done. You know like FDR asked folks to ‘help’ him.

“We know what to do. Now make me do it.”

My grandmother was one of those ‘helpful’ people, Norske, and she told me, on a number of occassions, that she regarded providing such help as her duty as a citizen.

You and I both know that Obama is going to need our help. Quite a bit of it.

Right now, we’re just doing it a little ‘differently’, but we’re in the same trenches and taking the same fire. Beyond that, I got yer back.

I guess so. *g*

I’m with you on that. Freakin crime family running the whitehouse. I shudder to think what has been done that we are completely unaware of.

Yup. One of these days I’ll try to write a “conspiracy theory” diary…*g*…FDL might not even post it…heh, heh. We’ll see. Just the facts M’am.

the old “there’s no other choice frame” – so useful in so many situations!

simpleminded binary thinking, of the kind favored by Gee Dubya himself.

but what if there were other choices, huh?

Chris Floyd thinks so:

There were many viable, reasonable, eminently centrist alternatives to the radical, plutocratic Bush-Obama scam — alternatives which would have been politically palatable to a broad spectrum of the electorate. One of the best ones of this ilk that I’ve seen was outlined in the eminently mainstream Washington Post earlier this week by two eminently respectable Yale economists.

(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/30/AR2008093002316.html?hpid=opinionsbox1)

There were many other such practical and effective plans offered by reputable experts, any one of which could have gone a long way toward protecting ordinary citizens now exposed by the meltdown, supporting the banks, and stabilizing the markets — all without effecting one of the largest single redistributions of wealth since the Bolsheviks seized power in Russia in 1917.

None of these plans were considered or debated or even mentioned, not even for a single moment, by the Democratic leadership in the House and Senate. Instead, they joined the Republican leadership and the Bush Administration in repeating, over and over, the Big Lie that there was NO OTHER CHOICE but some basic version of the unworkable Bush plan. The Democrats — led by Barack Obama — not only threw a political lifeline to the most despised president in American history (in the middle of an election year!), they deliberately took ownership of a measure widely rejected by the American public — a class war weapon of mass destruction whose malign effects will reverberate through American society for years, perhaps generations to come.

Why have they done this? Why would they do such a thing? Why would they commit such an egregious offense against their own people, when they could have very easily NOT done it, and had the near-unanimous support of the American electorate in standing up to the Bush plan and choosing some other completely mainstream alternative?

will anyone take the trouble to refute any of Chris Floyd’s logic, or will you avoid such unclean thoughts entirely?

post it here on Oxdown. I would love to read it

Holy shit. Good for Sherman to expose that!

Not really that surprising since I think they’ve been doing stuff like this all along, but I certainly hope Obama, Edwards, and the others remember this when they’re in a position to punish these people once and for all. It’ll be up to us to make sure they remember.

We must end the careers of these Traitors once and for all and not let them return later like they did after Watergate. We should NOT “put our national nightmare behind us,” and instead bring that nightmare front and center so we can wake up from this bad dream.

Well, my night is complete. I just told a troll on my blog to go to hell.

It is pretty obvious as to why…but people keep trying to make regular logic out of that which is not logical..that which is just plain criminal.

Treason.

This is why Joe Biden in his VP acceptance speech said to the crowd (he was really talking to the House & Senate actually), “You will never hear, ‘the vice president is on the phone’”. Dick Cheney has bullied, threatened, and has probably physically harmed the family members (just a guess but it wouldn’t surprise me) of the Senators to get what he wants.

Cheney is evil. He eats kittens.

LOL good

Anthrax anyone?

Did you notice the link by LS at comment #15? Rep. Brad Sherman stood on the floor today and said flat out that they were told to vote for this, or they’ll see to it that the markets tank and Martial Law will be declared.

If this is true and I was a Congressman, I could see myself thinking that we can’t let that happen in order to win the Prez race and massive gains in Congress, and then next year make sure we really start making some huge changes. Seems a reasonable stance to me.

So much happens that we don’t know about.

Bingo!

I appreciate the personal commitment that Senator Obama made to me that we will work to provide direct relief to homeowners facing foreclosure by enabling home mortgages to be dealt with in the context of personal bankruptcy and looking at a program such as one that existed in the 1930’s to 1950’s to work directly with homeowners to mitigate foreclosures.

Why am I not comforted by a promise to “look at” a HOLC-like program?
And what about oversight? Is it for real?

Constituents were frightened out of their gourds by a Wall St drop of 700+ points.

Fear, and terror, is how the game is played, and that’s how it was gamed upon a stupid, stupid electorate once again . . . fear and terror had small business owners running for their phones before they gave ONE thought about how they were handing their country over to despotic fascists who don’t give ONE big turd about small business, or anyone else besides the 1%.

I’m SURE phone’s were ringing at reps offices, but they caved in without telling their callers what was at stake, what the REAL issues were.

Why one would ask?

The reps are as stupid as the electorate, and besides, they are INSIDE the game now, and THAT is the only voice they really hear, anyway . . . the only time they listen to constituents is if the lines are flooded . . and in this case, every rep and senator who voted for the bailout let their constituents down by not sharing international analysis and information describing what the real economic issues are and why and how they came to be.

The politicans, for their own sloth, ignorance and greed once again failed us, and our country.

And greed, fear and terror continues to rule the day.
Game over. Gets worse from here.

HuffPo’s Blodget said it well . . .

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..30820.html

Just pray that they leave office. I’m not kidding. They haven’t put all of this into place in order to just walk away easily…

They will plot and plan until the end. That is who these people are. They’ve been doing this for generations. They might go for a short while, but they will always try to keep a foot in the door. They have access to EVERYTHING now, because of technology. They have the capacity to know everything their opposition is doing and talking about.

Howie Carr (right wing radio host out of Boston) said on Wednesday near the close of the market as it was reaching -400, (paraphrasing), “Oh yes! Sure! Just tell everyone to sell off to get to -400 to show how ‘bad’ it really is!”.

Some are saying online that the September 18th market crash was done electronically and was not a natural reaction to something that was going on across this country. If that’s the case, then Glenn Beck was correct when he said after the first crash….this was our REAL 9/11. Yep, it’s the real 9/11, because everyone in the Bush Regime and on Wall Street were IGNORING THE SIGNS and instead of intercepting the planes to avert disaster…they had their buddies electronically crash the markets. See? Some days it all makes sense. LOL

i’ll go watch that now – but didn’t Brad Sherman, D-CA, vote NO anyway?

The Army is now backtracking on their reason for having an Army Combat Brigade training on American soil to combat Americans:

http://obrag.org/?p=1652

Some are saying online that these guys were told to train for this because of the markets. The Bush Regime obviously know what is REALLY going on with the markets. It’s a charade and if the American people realized they were robbed of almost a trillion dollars and that money is going to be divided up amongst them and the Paulson’s, well, then maybe Martial Law would be appropriate. Spit.

Dodd said clearly that what they were told behind closed doors “sucked the oxygen out of the room”!!! That is as far as he went….

That’s pretty far!

They have a plan and a manufactured crisis…long time comin’. Just think about the timing. That is no accident.

Geebuz!!!

yep. wanna shut down the country just in time not to be able to vote. marshal law

ok watched it, he was referring, past tense to the pressure they were under to vote yes last Monday … he defied the fearmongering.

the bailout Obama pushed through is unlikely to help the greater economy in any way – it was just a stickup, a robbery.

Bonkers:

One needs to distinguish whether the ‘martial law’ in question was to be imposed by Congressional leaders upon the Congress, which is very different from ‘martial law’ imposed by the President.

The first affects Congress only and is a means to force, with no time provided for discussion or consideration, specific votes.

The second is the nightmare scenario of Directive 51.

It would be wise for us to be clear about this ‘question’, bonkers, that we not be accused of misrepresenting truth.

Until there is clear evidence to the contrary, one must suspect that it is the first form of ‘martial law’ that was threatened, which is, certainly, bad enough, rather than assuming the second.

DW

Yup. It is pretty incredible that the Executive Branch threatens Martial Law to force the Legislative Branch to put through legislation that benefits people who serve in the Executive Branch, at the expense of the taxpayers who they all supposedly serve. That is pretty serious stuff…

Treason.

The martial law scenario is in response to thousands of points being lost on Wall Street….that means martial law to control the chaos of the investors…not Congress.

Besides…Sherman would have said, Congressional Martial Law…that is not what he was describing…JMHO

John Hall sent out a similar message yesterday trying to justify his complete betrayal of the working Americans in his New York district.

I remember doing security for Paul Butterfield and members of the Band and hanging around with the people from Orleans…Hall had integrity then, now he’s just another incumbent trying to cover his actions taken in defense of capital against working people.

RIP, Democratic Party

Pelosi has said similar things over the last year. She’s implied that there’s some pretty extreme stuff happening behind the scenes. Given that we’re seeing people who are normally have very good Liberal voting records vote for this horrendous stuff, I’m beginning to think they’re not kidding when they imply how severe the threats have been.

If he knew his vote wouldn’t matter, perhaps he’d vote his conscience in order to stay in good graces with his constituents?

Why did he not then, specifically state, “If …, then the President has made clear that he will declare Martial Law.”?

I think it remains unclear from Sherman’s statement as to which ‘martial law’ he was suggesting was to by applied.

I await clearer answers.

My concern, LS, is no less than yours, as either threat is unconscionalble, however the second clearly IS treason as you have said.

If it is the second then Congress MUST say so, but as Sherman said, the conversations were “private”, which in itself calls many things into question and obscures (deliberately one may suppose) whar actually was said and to whom, as well as providing ready-made deniability.

I would simply like to be very certain, because, frankly, at this point, and based upon such ‘evidence’ as we have, too little is certain, and our strongest weapon must be truth.

Sherman prefaced the Martial Law comment by saying first they’d tank the stock market by several thousand points. This would create chaos and mass behaviour similar to the period after 9/11. They could then do pretty much whatever they’d want to the freaked out populace.

This is textbook, that is if the textbook used is the Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein.

kindly, politely, have you considered that the Democratic nominee and likely future President and Commander in Chief is doing exactly what he wants to be doing?

extraordinary threats and circumstances are, at best, a cover story to protect them from the 200:1 opposition to this craven bailout – welfare for billionaires.

and again the Sherman speech on the floor was past tense, about what they threatened if the bill didn’t pass on Monday, and it didn’t pass.

they just larded it up with lots of pork in the Senate, politics as usual.

otoh, Bonkers, DWBartoo, there has been speculation elsewhere that COG plans are currently in effect, but that rabbit hole goes kind of deep….

Again, if what you suspect is true, then it is incumbent (sorry, little slip there) upon Congress to make such truth known far and wide, else we’re left to wonder …

And, after such wondering, why should we suppose that Bu$h Co will leave anyway?

I don’t imagine that even $700 billion would buy off all the IOU’s Bu$h and Cheney would like to ‘cover’, and besides, to such sociopaths only brute power brings pleasure, mere money falls in their path as a gift from heaven and their orchards are full of money trees …

Sherman should make clear whar he meant.

Do you think he will elaborate?

Your thoughts have crossed my mind quite ofren over the past several years.

The level of physical threat and blackmail that have been postulated, would require such consumate acting from the threatened and balckmailed, as well as all their kith and kin, that the Bard, himself, would fall to his knees in dumfounded amazement.

;~D

Paul Wellstone would never have let himself be blackmailed!

oh yeah, right, wait, that didn’t turn out too well for him, though.

I’ve gotta go watch some light entertainment – cheers chaps!

Yer such a hoss. *G*

Obama’s life history and legislative record show little sign whatsoever that he would want to vacuum middle class money up to the uber rich. In fact, just the opposite, and given that still to this day, most of his campaign money has come from smaller donors, which dwarfs the amounts given to him by BigMoney, I do not think that this is what he really wants to happen.

With the Clintons or other DLCers I could believe that they really want this to happen, but it just doesn’t make sense when talking about Obama IMO. We’ll find out either way once he’s President.

So, who’s ELIGIBLE for them extra 13 weeks?

Everyone out of work? What about the legions of chronic unemployed or UNDER employed in the past few years? (look THAT stat up)

And I’m asking cuz I don’t know, not to be a smart ass . . . ‘preciate yer input! *G*

Perhaps, bonkers, when Obama is President we shall learn the truth of what has gone on these last eight years?

I certainly hope so.

The “past tense” argument doesn’t hold up for me, since they said all along there will probably be some back and forth with the Senate. It was pretty well understood that the Repubs that made a big show out of their early opposition to the Bailout were acting tough for political reasons. John Boner is not going to fight against a proposal to give BigMoney everything they want.

So if the supposed threats happened over the weekend or two days doesn’t seem to matter. They knew this was going to pass all along.

Let’s start with what happened Monday. Dow down 770 points, cuz House didn’t pass.

Who do you THINK is pressuring? The one’s who stand to gain from the bailout.

And as to martial law, there’s that US Army Brigade being trained in domestic non-lethal weapons and now under the command of NorthCom . . . ready to deploy, with support provided by Blackwater. At a moment’s notice.

Lastly, The Office Of The VP is presently inhabited by Dick Cheney . . . I hope this ends this portion of simple questions with simple answers . . . Thank you for playing! *G*

“Fear, and terror, is how the game is played,…”

Obama has said that “Fear is a bad counselor.” I wish he’d remember that. The Bush administration once again forced Congress to f**k the pig. When will they learn how to defend themselves against those vile tactics?

Bob in HI

Thought DOW closed +92????????

They need some sort of catastrophic event in order to claim Martial Law, so a 5,000 point drop in a few days would do that. They can do a lot to make that happen it seems, and do it fairly easily.

Now if they can get Billions more while going out the door, and likely hibernating for a decade or so and developing their next plans of attack, the fascists would probably prefer that since it’s not so messy. I gotta think $700 Billion is a lot, even to them.

Nope. -157.15.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27012699

Okay, going to bed. Nite all! Have a good one.

Here’s a better link:

http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/.DJIA

Can’t say as I disagree a whole lot with you.

Of course, with Bu$h Co. an ‘event’ could, if need be, be ‘developed’ or ‘encouraged’ or simply made up out of thin air.

Nobody who matters would question such a thing, certainly nobody ‘important’ in the Political Class would raise serious questions.

Personally, I think we’ll be lucky to get out from under Bu$h-Cheney with no more than what we’ve already paid, including this latest theft…

G’Nite Kay;

I enjoy your perspectives.

May your dreams be kindly and your rest peaceful.

DW

May I point out that this admin and its henchlings have ALREADY perpetrated treasonous acts and war crimes? Impeachable offenses? That were TAKEN off the table?

If past behavior is any indicator of present or future behavior . . . ya know?

Assume/prepare for the worst, pray for the best, and hope something in the middle comes along.

That’s Rove/Cheney’s textbook, I believe . . .

Agreed Bob . . . and all I can think is the dem’s are in on it all, all the way, and we’re being played like sheep with wolves guarding us.

Sure looks like it . . . all I can think POSITIVE is that maybe, the dem’s think they can save it all.
I think, they dug in too deep to save it . . . . and they’ll be forced at SOME point, at the barrell of a gun, to go along with the worst that can happen . . . aka Germany ‘34 onward.

I don’t think the market is the only tool in their box to ensure a major crisis. I’d bet there are at LEAST three others . . . chem, nuke, and general insane terrorist false flag activity.

Then, there’s the idea of a black ops on Iran, Afghan, or Pakistan with nukes.

After all, Minot/Barksdale isn’t REALLY fully accounted for . . .

what IS a hoss, anyhoo?

If I may be so bold, I believe “hoss” refers to “one of the good guys.”
hey larue

It’s so easy to talk about how rotten the system is when you aren’t a member of the House. Then you win and discover that it’s easier to cast stones than to walk the talk.

Damn, Donna, our family donated a ton of money to your campaign. And then, when your first tough vote arrives, you fold and go with the flow.

Remember the progressive chant, “More and Better Democrats”? Remember how Donna was the poster child for “More and Better Democrats.” Right.

Who could have imagined that a liberal Democrat would vote to bailout Wall St. bankers?

“After speaking with Senator Barack Obama yesterday and with many of our retirees, workers, homeowners and small business owners, I am convinced today that even left with this imperfect product, the choice is this or nothing. For me, doing nothing was never an option. I appreciate the personal commitment that Senator Obama made to me that we will work to provide direct relief to homeowners facing foreclosure by enabling home mortgages to be dealt with…” Blah, blah,blah… maybe later

I become almost apoplectic when I hear that these obscene gifts to thieves and incompetents are really for Main Street and the little guy. Further I have to know that the Democrats are the ones putting this over on us while the criminals that caused the problem vote against this “horseshit solution.”

And I get even angrier knowing I have to vote for Obama so as to prevent the greater evil: McCain/Palin. The truth about America is that it is so corrupt it cannot remain afloat without revolutionary change. Osama bin Laden was right about that. And did I mention I detest him, too?

I have taken the time to read the over 400 pages of the bill- most of which is the “sweetener” bills grafted on to get the votes of the Congress people. While as a mental health professional, I applaud the passage -at last- of the paraty bill, the cost of 700 billion with not one dollar in relief for the homeowner, the cost was too high. Donna, Barak and others have demonstrated the moral failure that has brought us to have such low respect for the Democratic Party. We lie as much as the Republicans, we just lie to ourselves. Yes we have to vote for Barak to keep McCain away from the button and the Supream court nominations, but we can only do so with grief in our hearts and our nose firmly held with both hands.

Who could have imagined that a liberal Democrat would vote to bailout Wall St. bankers?

JFTR I don’t blame Donna. It really is a lot harder to walk the walk than to kibitz from the sidelines. She’s completely outgunned and outnumbered, and any strategy that only works if every soldier is heroic in every battle is a strategy best abandoned sooner rather than later.

That original snarky comment was based on the assumption that while the people Donna Edwards was talking to were scared shitless, it was Obama who told her that under no circumstances would she be allowed an opportunity to vote for any alternative plan. Obama, for all of being a smart, sober cookie, and a decent guy in a variety of ways, is not by any stretch of the imagination a progressive or a populist. Maybe he’ll become one in office, and maybe he won’t. I’m willing to hope for the former, but I think I’ll go ahead and plan for the latter just in case.