No Associated Press content was harmed in the writing of this post
Last week Andy McCarthy prompted the latest change in my understanding in how the right thinks about torture. Initially I believed they were unwilling to accept their leaders were engaging in it, and that if it turned out they were they would recoil as sharply as the rest of us. That changed when I read a Los Angeles Times piece by Jonah Goldberg that basically stipulated we tortured but was fine with it anyway. It may have been this one, where he writes:
the meatier part of the argument is in the more nuanced area of "coercive measures," "stress positions" and what one unnamed official once described to the Wall Street Journal as "a little bit of smacky-face." [Since elaborated as "wrapp[ing] a collar around [a detainee's] neck and smash[ing] him over and over against a wall."]…The way [Andrew] Sullivan and those who agree with him see it, torture is torture is torture — and torture is always wrong, even when defined as intimidation and "smacky-face." "Not in my name" is their rallying cry, often with the sort of self-righteousness that suggests that those who disagree must admire cruelty.
Reading that, it became clear that Bush’s supporters were willing to uncritically accept the administration’s positions. Techniques were given cute euphemisms (see also) and those who objected to it on principle were dismissed as moral divas. Moreover, their reflexive support meant ignoring torture’s history. Engaging in practices with a gruesome past or lifting terminology from the Gestapo was never examined.
Now that we have some results they won’t even look at it from the most cold, calculating realpolitik perspective: Does it actually work? From a policy and intelligence standpoint is it a sound, sustainable program? Shouldn’t it give them pause that Abu Zubaydah gave up actionable intelligence under humane interrogation and worthless God-make-it-stop nonsense when waterboarded? Shouldn’t the extravagant lie that torturing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed helped prevent an attack factor into their thinking?
From the very beginning there has been a resolute, adamant insistence on ignoring facts. It has felt impossible to advance any kind of argument – to ask about investigations or prosecutions, to figure out how best to handle the cases of those we have tortured, to address our stance towards the rest of the world – when torture apologists appear entirely invested in the wholesale denial of reality. McCarthy’s contribution to the genre came as he referred to David Petraeus’ admission we have violated the Geneva Conventions:
With due respect to Gen. Petraeus, this is just vapid. To begin with, he doesn’t identify any provision of the Geneva Conventions that we have actually violated — he just repeats the standard talking-point of his current commander-in-chief that we took "steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions" during those bad old Bush days. What steps is he talking about? How about naming one?
Gladly: Common Article 3. The administration wanted to use tactics employed by the Soviet KGB – that the US characterized as torture – against detainees at Guantánamo. It engaged in transparently dishonest word games to violate the article’s prohibition against "cruel treatment and torture." The Supreme Court ruled that the prisoners were entitled to Geneva protections and that the administration had violated their rights under it. In a further show of bad faith Bush tried to get Congress to rewrite the Geneva Conventions to accommodate the violations and later issued (pdf) an executive order attempting to do the same.
I was able to find all those links within minutes. This was not a strenuous exercise. For torture apologists to defiantly demand proof that is so easily available can only mean that they are willfully ignorant of what has been going on. Their refusal to even acknowledge new developments makes it nearly impossible to engage their arguments or to give them the benefit of the doubt. It’s as though their mental state is fixed at September 12th: in the sense of shock and grief, along with a feeling of blind vengeance and a desire to lash out first and think about it later. There was no initial gathering of wits when that first wave passed, no desire to look at the history of torture in order to see whose company it would put us in or if it had been generally helpful, no willingness to look at the results to see if it could be justified on even a practical level, no admission that rulings have unambiguously repudiated it – nothing. They are where they have been from the very beginning: In favor of torture come hell or high water, obstinately defending it in the face of the vast accumulated evidence against it. And that, Mr. Goldberg, is indeed the outlook of one who admires cruelty.





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Why do Jonah Goldberg and “a little bit of smacky-face” seem to go together so well? The man looks and sounds like he would wilt at the first “Huah”, let alone actual physical contact with his own body, an immovable object he had to maneuver round, or a movable one with stripes. He probably thinks the “water” in waterboarding is as harmless as the ounce or two he splashes on his face once a month to shave.
His opinion on the legality, humaneness or effectiveness of the use of intense physical punishment to obtain a desired social end seems unlikely to be credible. Why the LA Times would pay so much to learn so little from his opinions is a conundrum. I assume its because he’s the continued recipient of Wingnut Welfare – a nepotistic leg up he couldn’t raise himself.
Honest journalism is a rarely found commodity. What we get over and over is the one script that they are all following. Now that a judge has ruled that Yoo has to appear in court..expect an escalation of this kind of rhetoric. Of course, to put journalism and NRO in the same sentence is kinda stretching the truth at the best of times. I doubt that Goldberg and other shills actually believe in torture; they believe in their paychecks. They are covering for the last administration who made torture the official American policy. They are also covering for this administration who is covering for the last administration. As disgusting as their articles are, they are in a win-win position by continuing to write what they write.
****************
” Apparently, people who inflict torture under U.S government orders are entitled to their good name, regardless of how many innocent people they kill. It is ironic to see such solicitude for the rights of individuals who may have violated the Geneva Convention. Perhaps privacy rights are the only rights that government respects any more. But the only people who are entitled to privacy are those who followed orders and committed horrendous crimes.
Panetta also asserted that his request to suppress all the evidence was “in no way driven by a desire to prevent embarrassment for the U.S. government or the CIA, or to suppress evidence of any unlawful conduct.”
Panetta neglected to add that he would sell the judge the Brooklyn Bridge for only $29.95. “
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0906d.asp
Sounds like she has the pictures that we have seen and a whole lot more. If she does have these pictures, it is going to make the effort to suppress them a futile one. Maybe Goldberg will do a book review for her seeing as how he supports torture?
*************
” With a new book to peddle and her appeal against the conviction due to be heard next month, one might have expected the 26-year-old England to express some remorse.
Following Barack Obama’s release of CIA torture files which lend credence to her claim that the ritual humiliation of prisoners was a White House sanctioned tactic during the Bush regime, she even consulted her local senator about petitioning for a Presidential pardon
Sorry? For what I did?’ she interjects, incredulous. ‘All I did was stand in the pictures. Saying sorry is admitting I was guilty and I’m not. I was just doing my duty.’
She recites her often-rehearsed argument: that the Abu Ghraib guards were tacitly encouraged to ’soften up’ the prisoners before they were interrogated by military intelligence officers.
Intriguingly, she claims to possess about 800 more unseen photographs from her time in Iraq, depicting scenes which would be highly damaging to the U.S. Army and the White House, if they were ever released.
Roy T. Hardy claims they include pictures of an Iraqi woman bearing her breasts and graphic images of wounded enemy combatants, but declines to go into more detail because, until her dishonorable discharge is finalised, England remains a serving soldier.
It is not clear whether these photographs, which are locked away in a vault, are among the hundreds which Obama is withholding – having reneged last month on his promise to release them when he came to power.
But their very existence constitutes a ticking time-bomb for the U.S. authorities, and biographer Gary Winkler believes she and Hardy will try to sell them to the highest bidder. “
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…..rison.html
stop arguing about Geneva, and just use the United States Code
it’s right there, in black and white
Title 18
Chapter 113C
§ 2340. Definitions
As used in this chapter—
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
(3) “United States” means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.
§ 2340A. Torture
(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.
kinda hard to argue with that …
” kinda hard to argue with that …”
Unless you are John Yoo.
” Fascism is not liberal: The profound dishonesty of Jonah Goldberg
But then, anyone who’s read Liberal Fascism already knows that intellectual honesty is not Goldberg’s strong suit. Rather the contrary.
One of the more striking aspects of his dishonesty is how he manipulates his definitions in self-serving fashion that lets him move the goalposts at will, as though we were playing Calvinball. John Cole calls this “the Goldberg Principle”: “You can prove any thesis to be true if you make up your own definitions of words.” “
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2…..found.html
” Remember, these are ‘the worst of the worst,’ right?
Mohammed El-Gharani, the youngest prisoner at Gitmo, just 14 when he was captured in 2001, is finally being “freed five months after a U.S. federal judge ordered him released having reviewed the evidence against him and ruled that there was nothing to suggest he was ever an ‘enemy combatant.’” El-Gharani has never been charged.
Andy Worthington, the man who literally wrote the book on the Guantanamo travesties, offers the sad background on the breaking news of the release of “Guantánamo’s Forgotten Child,” including details of alleged abuse such as being hanged by his wrists, and scissors held to his penis with threats of cutting it off. But we’re supposed to look forward, not back, right?…”
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7221#more-7221
If you think torture only happened outside of the US, think again. Padilla is an American citizen.
************
” In most regards, Judge White states in his opinion (Opinion in Padilla v Yoo – alternate link – 42pages pdf) that Padilla has basis to pursue his suit.
Here are a few notable excerpts from Judge White’s opinion.
“Padilla also alleges that he has suffered gross physical and psychological abuse upon the orders of high-ranking government officials as part of a systematic program of abusive interrogation which mirror the abuses committed at Guantanamo Bay.” p2-3
What is notable here, is the admission within the Judge’s opinion that the interrogation methods experienced by Padilla in his three years and eight month detention at the Naval Consolidated Brig in Charleston, South Carolina were the same “abuses committed at Guantánamo Bay.” “