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I can’t predict whether Obama’s health care reform speech to the AMA will substantially improve the chances for genuine reforms.
But I don’t think we should underestimate the powerful message the President of the United States just delivered to the people who, if you read the speech carefully, Obama unmistakably identified as having utterly failed the nation’s health care needs — and it wasn’t just the AMA.
The MSNBC video runs about 55 minutes. Select excerpts below.
The NYT covers the story; the excerpts are from the as-delivered text released by the White House. Is there any doubt whom the President was talking about in these sections:
Make no mistake: The cost of our health care is a threat to our economy. It’s an escalating burden on our families and businesses. It’s a ticking time bomb for the federal budget. And it is unsustainable for the United States of America.
It’s unsustainable for Americans like Laura Klitzka, a young mother that I met in Wisconsin just last week, who’s learned that the breast cancer she thought she’d beaten had spread to her bones, but who’s now being forced to spend time worrying about how to cover the $50,000 in medical debts she’s already accumulated, worried about future debts that she’s going to accumulate, when all she wants to do is spend time with her two children and focus on getting well. These are not the worries that a woman like Laura should have to face in a nation as wealthy as ours. (Applause.)
Stories like Laura’s are being told by women and men all across this country — by families who’ve seen out-of-pocket costs soar, and premiums double over the last decade at a rate three times faster than wages. This is forcing Americans of all ages to go without the checkups or the prescriptions they need — that you know they need. It’s creating a situation where a single illness can wipe out a lifetime of savings.
Our costly health care system is unsustainable for doctors like Michael Kahn in New Hampshire, who, as he puts it, spends 20 percent of each day supervising a staff explaining insurance problems to patients, completing authorization forms, writing appeal letters — a routine that he calls disruptive and distracting, giving him less time to do what he became a doctor to do and actually care for his patients. (Applause.)
Small business owners like Chris and Becky Link in Nashville are also struggling. They’ve always wanted to do right by the workers at their family-run marketing firm, but they’ve recently had to do the unthinkable and lay off a number of employees — layoffs that could have been deferred, they say, if health care costs weren’t so high. Across the country, over one-third of small businesses have reduced benefits in recent years and one-third have dropped their workers’ coverage altogether since the early ’90s.
Our largest companies are suffering, as well. A big part of what led General Motors and Chrysler into trouble in recent decades were the huge costs they racked up providing health care for their workers — costs that made them less profitable and less competitive with automakers around the world. If we do not fix our health care system, America may go the way of GM — paying more, getting less, and going broke.
When it comes to the cost of our health care, then, the status quo is unsustainable. (Applause.) So reform is not a luxury; it is a necessity.
Why have previous reform efforts failed?
Part of the reason is because the different groups involved — doctors, insurance companies, businesses, workers, and others — simply couldn’t agree on the need for reform or what shape it would take. And if we’re honest, another part of the reason has been the fierce opposition fueled by some interest groups and lobbyists — opposition that has used fear tactics to paint any effort to achieve reform as an attempt to, yes, socialize medicine. . . .
We know the moment is right for health care reform. We know this is a historic opportunity we’ve never seen before and may not see again. But we also know that there are those who will try and scuttle this opportunity no matter what — who will use the same scare tactics and fear-mongering that’s worked in the past; who will give warnings about socialized medicine and government takeovers, long lines and rationed care, decisions made by bureaucrats and not doctors. We have heard this all before. And because these fear tactics have worked, things have kept getting worse.
And whom do you think the President is addressing when he lists what needs to be fixed? He first cites the huge regional disparities in costs and practices examined by Gawande in his New Yorker article:
There are two main reasons for this. The first is a system of incentives where the more tests and services are provided, the more money we pay. And a lot of people in this room know what I’m talking about. It’s a model that rewards the quantity of care rather than the quality of care; that pushes you, the doctor, to see more and more patients even if you can’t spend much time with each, and gives you every incentive to order that extra MRI or EKG, even if it’s not necessary. It’s a model that has taken the pursuit of medicine from a profession — a calling — to a business.
That’s not why you became doctors. That’s not why you put in all those hours in the Anatomy Suite or the O.R. That’s not what brings you back to a patient’s bedside to check in, or makes you call a loved one of a patient to say it will be fine. You didn’t enter this profession to be bean-counters and paper-pushers. You entered this profession to be healers. (Applause.) And that’s what our health care system should let you be. That’s what this health care system should let you be. (Applause.)
Now, that starts with reforming the way we compensate our providers — doctors and hospitals. We need to bundle payments so you aren’t paid for every single treatment you offer a patient with a chronic condition like diabetes, but instead paid well for how you treat the overall disease. We need to create incentives for physicians to team up, because we know that when that happens, it results in a healthier patient. We need to give doctors bonuses for good health outcomes, so we’re not promoting just more treatment, but better care.
And we need to rethink the cost of a medical education, and do more to reward medical students who choose a career as a primary care physician — (applause) — who choose to work in underserved areas instead of the more lucrative paths. (Applause.)
And it doesn’t let up. Obama takes on the AMA, the insurance/hospital industry, Pharma, all of them. They’re all complicit in building and protecting an unsustainable, inhumane system. And he tells them they have to be part of the solution.
It was a stunning, powerful and courageous speech. He didn’t back down on the public option or fixing compensation or letting the insurance/Pharma boys escape public compeition. He stroked the AMA for the few positive things they’ve supported, but he didn’t give reform opponents another inch.
Reviews:
AP, Obama presses doctors to support reform, gets applauded and booed
Calling them "naysayers,""fear-mongers" and peddlers of "Trojan horse" falsehoods, Obama warned interest groups, lobbyists and others against using "fear tactics to paint any effort to achieve reform as an attempt to socialize medicine."
"There are those who will try and scuttle this opportunity no matter what," Obama said.
Sam Stein/HuffPo — more excerpts
Think Progress, on public option; also, McCain says inefficient public plan will drive private plans out of business.
Ezra Klein, CBO says Kennedy plan covers only 16 million uninsured





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I sawr this covered in the beeb. I thought what high class people make up the AMA constituency, booing a speech of rather considerable significance, I thought. It certainly didn’t warrant boos. Even respectable people will boo, e.g., at hockey games. Maybe they were booing the Penguins, still.
this is NOT taking on the insurance companies. this is protecting them.
Video added.
Arlen Specter says a lot of nice things, too. His political persona is built around not doing what he says.
Mr. Obama is an altogether more complex politician. Public speaking is one of his great strengths. Fulfilling campaign and stump speech promises, not so much.
But he can’t fail to realize that however much the odds are against implementing credible universal health care, should he accomplish it, he’d earn a seat in that open-topped limo next to FDR, cigarette holder and all. Should his actions be limited to sound and fury, generations of Americans will mourn the lost opportunity.
When Government or Corporations do not want to give you money they give you paperwork in the hopes you give up.
I don’t thing we should dismiss this speech. It’s not from the campaign with vague rhetoric; it’s a sitting President telling the country exactly what he wants and saying it in strong terms. He’s betting a big chunk of his domestic/economic agenda on getting most of what he’s asking.
You can’t read the diagnosis or problems without thinking, “single payer would solve most of this,” but once you start with “we’ll build on what works and fix what’s broken,” and the realization that displacing the insurance system that serves 180 [million] people, badly or otherwise, would be a huge undertaking, then you’re not on that path. Given the path he chose, this is a pretty strong statement.
should he accomplish it, he’d earn a seat in that open-topped limo next to FDR, cigarette holder and all.
would love, love, love to see it.
However – haven’t seen it yet – in any arena, on any issue….
Boy, would I like to be proven wrong.
The British system weighs heavily in the minds of American doctors. In 1994, I was treated for stage I breast cancer. Within the first month or so, I probably saw 7 or 8 different doctors–surgeons, medical oncologists and a radiation oncologist. Three of them told me what my treatment would be if I were in Britain even though I never asked one of them about it! Plus the doctors didn’t agree what would happen to be sould I be treated in Britain. It was a pretty unpleasant time and I was trying to find amusement wherever I could, and I found amusement in this.
Citizens in some countries are living longer how about citizens in third world countries!
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5688
Auto workers in Germany and France all have healthcare thats cheaper and that helps them sell cars.
Seems reasonable to me that over 50% of the currently uninsured, at least 40 million people including myself, will choose the public option. Then, how many currently insured will switch because they’re so unhappy with their corporate plans.
Whatever the case, we’re talking 10s of millions of people suddenly on a government-run plan. It then seems reasonable to suggest that the stigma attached to a “Canadian style” system will diminish rapidly, therby softening up the public for a single-payer system over a few years. The people will begin demanding it.
Even if this scenario doesn’t go that far, and there remains a fairly strong private insurance system in addition to a publicly-run system, that’s a huge improvement over the status quo.
So I saw a headline earlier saying “Obama Rejects Single Payer,” which is good politically to keep his strong cross party support for future battles, by promoting government-run healthcare in the frame of “market competition,” and at the exact same time we end up on a short path toward a single payer system.
I don’t see this “protecting” insurance companies at all, and that’s why we’re seeing such fierce opposition even to a lukewarm “public option” proposal. I think the Insurance lobby knows what a public option will lead to. Obama will need ever bit of support he can get as the Noize Machine fires up against him, and he’s been consistently saying what he’s said today. He needs single payer advocates to have his back in this fight.
He’s dogmatically capitalist, while offering a public option, contradictory positions in many hands (though not necessarily in fact).
I seem him reassuring his AMA audience that they will not need to give up their 7 series beemers and become public servants, paid a GS-15 salary, the stereotype in Britain.
He makes noises about his public option. If he means it, it would set several standards that would change the face of health care. One would be its operating cost. Devoid of a need to book profits or pay American-CEO wage scale to its administrators, they should inherently be lower, as is true of Social Security vs. Aetna or Hartford.
If he pegs insurance rates at a high floor, as a de facto subsidy for the private boys, it would be a criminal waste of taxpayer funds. It removes one incentive to join it. If he then pays low to middle income workers a subsidy to pay that insurance, he’s helping insurers and hospitals by taking basket of patients most likely to have trouble paying their bills generally. Ditto if he doesn’t cover “all risks”, meaning explicitly insure those patients with pre-existing injuries who most need access to preventive and maintenance health care.
If he doesn’t negotiate with care providers, drugs companies, etc., for lower costs, its a further subsidy to the status quo. Ad nauseum. The devil isn’t in the speeches; it’s in the details.
i like marcy’s response when she was asked what question she would ask obama, if given the opportunity, at the presser she attended on the gov taking a stake in GM:
I expect the GOP to panic they will point out all the insurance jobs that will be lost and never mention that some of these jobs will become government jobs.
They will point out all the clerk staff that Doctors and Hospitals will let go.
They will point out that every healthcare, drugmaker etc stock might tank on this news. Sure they will get bigger but the GOP will focus on profits per unit.
Which will go down. But as profits per unit go down volume will go up maybe enough to make up for the lost profit.
Never mind that all that extra money consumers save will flood the economy we need numbers for that.
We need numbers for medical emergency bankruptcies imagine if all those home foreclosed for medical emergencies were not burdened with medical bills only late home payments because of lost work?
How much healthier would our banks be then?
I had lived in England for a little over 6 months when I found out I was eligible for free care (was there as a student).
Got sucker-punched in a pub (which to this day, I’m a bit unhappy about) – showed up the next morning at a doctor’s office – got stitched up and sent right on home. No problem – no charge.
P.S. please don’t think that I don’t realize that this is no comparison whatsoever to your situation.
completely agree.
True I want the government to be prepared to accept everybody even people with insurance on day one. I want workers to be able to opp out of their private plans take the money spent as pay and go government plan.
No forms just a card proving who you are and the Dr’s fill out you electronic records.
We need to push Obama for more! I think this speech will get the ball rolling now we need to push the ball farther.
Now, that starts with reforming the way we compensate our providers — doctors and hospitals. We need to bundle payments so you aren’t paid for every single treatment you offer a patient with a chronic condition like diabetes, but instead paid well for how you treat the overall disease. We need to create incentives for physicians to team up, because we know that when that happens, it results in a healthier patient. We need to give doctors bonuses for good health outcomes, so we’re not promoting just more treatment, but better care.
Sorry, but this sounds like the medical equivalent of No Child Left Behind, making doctors responsible for the patient’s outcome as though physicians have it within their power to effect a certain result.
If you smoke and are obese, why should the team of physicians bear the responsibility for your diabetes’ complications, as an example.
Sure, there are doctors who “over-order” tests and procedures. But it is also the case we the patients want the confirmation those tests provide, and indeed, whether those tests were ordered often enters into what the community’s standard of care is in med mal cases.
M.D. has sometimes jokingly been referred to as Medical Deity. But the truth is, they’re not gods, they’re humans, who trained long and hard and who, most of them, do their best. So now we’ll say you don’t get paid if the patient doesn’t improve or get better? Will we take into account the sickest often are referred to tertiary treatment centers, that this is actually good medical practice?
We need to decouple health care from insurance. We need to cover those without care. But let’s not dump on the docs. Instead, why not make the insurance executives’ bonuses dependent on the good outcomes for their insureds?
You’ve been a fairly harsh critic of Obama, and I applaud you for reading tea leaves on this issue and thinking a couple steps ahead. People can give credit and critique all at the same time. Appreciate your fairness….
Exactly
If that were the case, the AMA hardliners wouldn’t be booing him.
Bureaucrats, not doctors, make many health care decisions now. It’s just that they are low-paid high school graduates or literature students at insurance companies in Atlanta, Hartford, Denver or Bangalore. They are accountable only to their immediate supervisors and their first priority is to follow the rules on their flat screens and to make money for their employer.
If government employees administer plans, they might be more well-educated and paid, and they and their bosses would be more publicly accountable. That is, unless Mr. Obama’s plan involves outsourcing the “public plan” to those already in the business. Any such outsourced provider would have more incentive to demonstrate that a public plan is too expensive and doesn’t work than to show that it can be less expensive and work better than private ones.
Which healthcare system in which country gives its people longer life? Also at what cost we do spend much more than England, France, Japan.
Taxing fast Food and promoting a Japanese style diet with lower taxes might be a good I do believe they live the longest.
was obama booed for the statement i highlighted?
Not an unusual occurrence for American university students on that side of the pond. Lucky it wasn’t a head butt; you’d have had a trip to the dentist, too.
…why not make the insurance executives’ bonuses dependent on the good outcomes for their insureds?
because insurance companies’ profits don’t come from treatment, or denial of payment for treatment, but rather from the investments that the company exec’s make with the premiums?
Survey: More than half can’t find heart on body diagram
Source: CNN
If home is where the heart is, a new survey suggests that most people aren’t sure exactly where they live. More than half of people cannot pinpoint the exact location of the human heart on a diagram, and nearly 70 percent can’t correctly identify the shape of the lungs, according to the survey.
This lack of knowledge isn’t just embarrassing — it could lead to a poorer quality of health care, some experts say.
In the study, published in the journal BMC Family Practice, a research team surveyed 722 Britons — 589 hospital outpatients and 133 people in the general population. They gave the volunteers four diagrams of human figures and asked them to choose the one that showed the correct size and location of a specific organ. (For example, the heart diagrams showed various size organs on the far left side of the chest, directly in the center, anchored on the center/left chest, and on the right side of the chest.)
Overall, people knew less basic anatomy than the researchers expected — even those patients being treated for a specific condition involving that organ. Participants generally answered half of the questions correctly, including 46.5 percent who knew which drawing represented their heart. In all, 31.4 percent correctly identified the lungs, 38.4 percent the stomach, 41.8 percent the thyroid, and 42.5 percent the kidneys.
The intestines and bladder were the most easily identified, with 85.9 percent and 80.7 percent, respectively, answering the question correctly.
Lucky it wasn’t a head butt; you’d have had a trip to the dentist, too.
heh. yeah – I know. But he would have had to be in front of me for that to have happened. I was sitting down – the guy was behind me – still don’t know how he pulled that punch off.
So it goes…
they have lost trillions in real estate,and it aint coming back
Because ultimately public or private healthcare system we all pay more for healthcare premiums if more people who are covered by healthcare die.
This is about saving US money. The Dr gets a cut of the money we save they do not get penalized for not stopping smokers and obese people they get cash for stopping them thats a plus they were not getting before.
Its like voluntary over time nobody is forcing the Dr’s.
I was being a tad snarky but in my view, it’s the insurance industry that’s the biggest problem, although I’m not a fan of hospital and clinic administrators, either.
I’m afraid I’m missing your point.
You articulate a good point, that we need to decouple insurance – a method of payment – from health care. Today’s model makes insurers payers (as if from their own pockets) and practitioners of medicine without licenses or training. That model arose because it gave insurers substantial additional power.
Decoupling the two itself will undercut insurers’ power, a good thing since they consider themselves too big to fail, too. Politically, it may be like forcing “banks” to give up the all the sexy Wall Street stuff and go back to being banks. Insurers won’t like it, so let’s phase it in over 5-10 years, but let’s put the writing on the wall now.
In this economy? If their pay was related to the investments they made…well they would not be getting paid at all this year:)
Dr’s are not getting penalized they are being offered an opportunity to make more money they can choose to make more money or choose not to.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I will say this one more time: Obama is neither a liar nor a charlatan and he will go as far as is politically possible to go to solve a problem including putting his neck on the line.
His approach to every single problem beginning with the economy has been to mobilze political constituencies and to use the executive branch to force the judiciary and the legislative branch to fullfill their responsibilities. There has been no point in his so far short administration at which he has moved against popular pressure…and that includes the war and war crimes where he is tryin ta use the lawless actions and arguments of the Bush administration to force the judiciary to once and for all end those practices and remove them from our history going forward.
Enough of this wailing and gnashing of teeth…figure out who the enemy is here, brothers and sisters, some of you are beginnin’ ta sound like those who heard the Gettysburg Address and didn’t think it would help Abe get re-elected. Obama’s speech was the most powerful declaration of political war we have heard in this country since FDR announced Social Security.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN’ AMMUNITION, TO WIN WE MUST KNOW WHO AND WHERE THE ENEMY IS!!!
It comes from both. But with Wall Streets fantasy investments currently in disgrace, insurers will be screaming for those profits from insurance plan administration.
AIG lawyer: Ex-top exec plundered retirement plan
AIG lawyer: Ex-top exec plundered retirement plan By MADLEN READ, AP Business Writer – 6 mins ago NEW YORK – The former top executive of American International Group Inc. plundered an AIG retirement program of billions of dollars because he was angry at being forced out of the company, a lawyer for AIG told jurors Monday at the start of a civil trial.
So if a doctor gets a patient to give up smoking and lose weight, they get paid better? Want to tell me how that works? We have lots of HMOs in our town. There are stop smoking clinics and weight loss programs. And you know what—patients in those HMOs still smoke and are still overweight because that is what THEY choose.
In this economy? If their pay was related to the investments they made…well they would not be getting paid at all this year:)
yup. Sounds like a problem to me – Don’t ya think?
the traditional profit-method is currently in a coma. So how happy would you think that insurers are going to be at the moment being asked by Obama to accept an untried and untested method of doing things differently?
You…are a treasure.
The allegations may be accurate. But no mega-corporation makes such a material disclosure, not in this climate, without putting enormous top spin on it. Blaming a “former disgruntled worker” is an employer meme as old as Methuselah.
Moving that much money around, much less actually spending it, and certainly from a fiduciary obligation-bound retirement plan, is not the work of a lone gunmen. It takes a conspiracy.
Citizen bonkers:
You are too kind pardner…I’m jest an old man tryin ta make it.
pass ye popcorn
He does seem to try and get consensus first even when he doesn’t have to and this effort frustrating as it is for us very well might explain his popularity.
However I still think we need to keep playing the bad cop role, we force as FDR was forced things to get done.
(FDR met some activists I heard they explained their ideas he agreed with them and then asked them to make him do it?) I think I got the story right.
smart cookie
Sup bro, SOS up in here huh?
Until they choose not too and with the support of family, friends and their Dr’s hopefully they can quit people do it every day. We just want to up the percentage even a 1% drop in healthcare costs is worth something.
Moving that much money around, much less actually spending it, and certainly from a fiduciary obligation-bound retirement plan, is not the work of a lone gunmen. It takes a conspiracy.
bingo.
“It takes a Village?”
The as-delivered text posted at the WH cite shows [applause] in places and [boos] in places. It looks like the boos were directed at, e.g., Obama saying he didn’t support capping malpractice awards. They didn’t seem to boo his statements about private insurance, in fact they applauded the parts lamenting how much time the good doctors had to spend hassling with insurance forms, etc.
Citizen Flamethrower… Fer Gawds sake man.. share the link to your rose-colored sunglasses suppler with the rest of us. /s
I want to see only the pretty things too.
He isn’t getting out of wars and he’s going to do his best to protect everyone from big insurance to torturers. Don’t let the pretty hallucinogenic words be a substitute for deeds.
only pretty words
Yea Norske, you are not enough of a downer, WTF?
malpractice awards are already capped here. (which is some serious fuckery)
I have no idea how other states handle the issue.
I don’t think the problem is with the education level of the people administering the payment system. If you set up the system so that the incentive is to deny coverage or claims, then that’s what you’ll tend to get. The key, IMO, is to define the goals — non-discriminator access, coverage for all — and then set the incentives to achieve that. The employees will tend to follow the incentives.
Not very and they very well might win this fight but the system is unsustainable either they follow Obama come up with a better idea (I’m all ears ) or they go broke.
GM and Chrysler insured their workers as do the car parts makers who also make parts for Ford Toyota etc.
Now imagine if Obama did not intervene and GM, Chrysler went under taking the auto parts makers with them.
And all those workers lost their coverage either several hospitals in several states would go under providing free emergency care or they would not get treated.
How fast would Swine flu heck any disease spread in a population with no healthcare?
Would it spread to far to be contained would it have enough time to mutate past any vaccines or drugs we have to stop it?
Check the as-delivered text from the WH link I cited. it’s shows where the applause and boos were responding to.
Funny the GOP thinks that we never say a single bad thing about Obama:)
We just complain about different stuff.
Obama didn’t blame doctors for obesity or smoking (the latter was Ronnie Reagan’s fault, IIRC). He said we should encourage efforts to reduce those problems, which drew applause.
thanks. i counted 3 “applause”s in the bit i quoted. no boos. that’s why i asked pw, i don’t know what she was referring to.
If we had to go to war, I’d go to war with you. I’d never worry about being shot from behind.
Bureaucrats, not doctors, make many health care decisions now.
Exactly. My son was taking a certain med for seizures for 7 years until the generic came out. At refill time, and without warning the pharmacy filled the generic. The pharmacist told me that my son should not be on the generic and that I should call my doctor. When we contacted the Insurance company, a person, who is not a doctor over ruled what a neurologist and a pharmacist recommended. After a lengthly battle we were able to get the original medication.
constantly, doggedly, on and on and on
Look at environment a Ghetto kid selling drugs well maybe thats the only job offered.
Considering the economy a study of Fast Food workers and being overweight would not surprise anyone.
Both groups choose to work both groups jobs have dangers like drug addiction or being overweight.
Both groups will likely go to the hospital with no healthcare coverage under the current system so everybody with healthcare or who pays cash at the hospital ends up paying higher rates.
Or we can just let them die.
Obama’s way they heck everyone gets healthcare we pay less money than we do currently and by encouraging people to be healthy we save more money.
Free Choice is funny first you must look at the options presented to decide if there are any good options.
i haven’t yet seen any details on proposed incentives to change the insurance business model that now includes denying claims. or to prevent adverse selection. or to prevent underfunding of the private option (if there is one)….
You think we need more happy stories debating the benefits of National Healthcare, green energy, hybrid cars and while Obama’s ideas are good we of course should never settle for what we have and dream of something better?
I think its doable maybe the high command could consider it too much we are reacting to the other side.
Or we say Obama is not doing enough. Maybe we should try to educate about the issues before Obama brings them up and prepare the ground?
Making people want more than Obama is offering would not be all that bad.
Ok I’m sorry.
Monied interests lobby elected politicians to pass laws which protect their self interest, and way of doing business. Just the concept of an employer based system gives an advantage to and employer/corporation. For decades quality employers afforded health insurance to attract quality at will employees while unions bargained for health benefits. But there can be no doubt the very model is designed for the benefit of corporate leverage over employees. Now after decades of increasing energy prices and the negative effect of an “energy tax” on the liberties of people… all of a sudden we must do something because corporations can no longer afford the cost healthcare? So Now about 50 % of bankruptcies are do to health issues. Yes, when a self employed businessman or employee with a family gets a serious illness well, he loses every thing for his efforts in life. I wonder if the premiums he paid out went to a tax exempt corporation listed as a Pubic charity, and he can’t deduct that cost??
The answer for some is to tax health benefits? Others propose mandated healthcare which in effect renders and individual subservient to state and corporate interest, because they are born into “Life?”
Freemen, as Dred Scott and slaves where denied legal standing to petition the courts, to claim protection of law as enumerated in the “Bill of Rights,” given its clear intent simple language. Instead the the private property rights of a class of people where protected by a legal decision and men where not free as envisioned by the constitution, but rather property. Dred Scott
Healthcare reform which mandates/taxes before effect cost controls are devised implemented and proven effective is rendering the American people subservient to interests which shall continue to decimate our liberties. Why should our interests be subordinate/subservient to the interests of the very corporations which exercise “adverse selection” and “legalized discrimination” under the color of law. How is there equal protection for one’s life, when by virtue of what “”economic circumstances”" you are born into, you may have health coverage or not! Born a Senator’s son, your covered by taxpayers! Born the son of the self employed taxpayer, your on your own! Once again under the facade of law people are denied Life Liberty, pursuit of happiness, opportunities never realized, because their Life Liberty and pursuit of happiness was not as important as the bottom line profits of the
slaveonwerhealth insurance corporations, energy corporation, auto corporations and private banks as Jefferson warned?No need to be sorry Happy stories was a bad choice of words on my part I’m serious maybe the Lake is too negative maybe a change in how topics are covered would help.
I’m just throwing out ideas feel free to criticize, change, improve because I think you and Norske do have a point.
If he means it, we should see a slew of measures. Cutting subsidies for corn would be one. We need the money elsewhere. And highly processed corn syrups, frequently more than one, are what’s in the products that make up the middle 60% of your grocery store’s shelves. They contribute to what’s known as the Western diet disease – a syndrome of poor dental health, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Those constituencies include big ag.
I would love to have a real public debate about food and food policy. It overlaps considerably with the debate on health care and the mechanisms that pay for it. I’m becoming a little Brooksish and worrying about Obama framing a sweeping agenda, which I don’t mind, and then having him do a Specter in that he gets to too little of it, which I would mind.
In raising issues, he needs to put them in context, how they relate to what’s already on the public policy table, and what he hopes to do about them.
I dunno, I went fishing for a week and nothing changed (except my freezer is full).
Flamin’ straight on that one, Norsker. If you’re not betting on Obama, then who?
Is that because none of them ever lived or were treated by the British NHS?
My daughter was born at Queen Charlot’s hospital. We choose the hospital for her birth over home, or the local clinic. In the pre-natal screenings, the doctors determined my daughter was small for dates, and my wife, her mother, spent the last month of pregnancy in bed, in the hospital.
In this month, the social workers called at our home to view, the conditions at home for the new born child.
Three days after birth she came home. The social workers call a number of times personally and by phone to check on the health of the mother and child. (As an aside, women are not considered legally sane after childbirth in the UK for some period).
Cost of this hospital stay, birth, pre and post natal care? $0.
And its not free, its paid for in National Insurance Contributions (a payroll tax).
I doubt there is any but a very small minority who would abolish the NHS in the UK. A very, very small minority. You want better (faster care for acute conditions), than the NHS? Buy BUPA insurance and go private.
The comment about their educations is an expression of the talent pool they often hire to do first and second level screening and plan administration. No plan works well with improper staffing or staffing mismatched with the materials they are meant to use. And indirectly to your point, if delay is an intended purpose of the current insurance company “payment” model, then what you and I would regard as poor or improper staffing would be a feature, not a bug.
I agree with your priority that providing health care for all should be the public plan’s purpose.
I don’t disagree with that ideal. I really like a President that asks citizens to think and make connections between related causes/effects. But I wonder how much of this the public can really absorb. He’s already blowing by the media, whose job it is to interpret/explain/analyze what they’re hearing/seeing and make it accessible to more people. As you can tell from some of my other posts, I think on the whole they’re doing a crappy job of that, not even counting all the deliberately misleading stuff driven by ideology.
The fact is, our health care system is extremely complicated, and sorting it out, understanding all the linkages, let alone fixing it, is very hard. Can you imagine George Bush or Ronald Reagan or Gingrich or Boehner or Sarah Palin or McCain speaking to the AMA today and trying to articulate a reform agenda?
You the man! “Obama’s speech was the most powerful declaration of political war we have heard in this country since FDR announced Social Security.”
As Obama said! “The status quo is unsustainable!” Did not Abe say something how the institution of slavery was not sustainable???
But you can be dam sure those who benefit and profit form the status quo will do everything to keep it….status quo. That was the reality of the Dred Scott decision, to protect the status quo / economic interests of slave owners dependent on the uncompensated labor of individuals considered property!
Connecting the dots while exposing blind….lacking any head yet, puss filled zits! Will some one pop it?
I watched some of the speech, and I was surprised at the amount of sustained applause he got, e.g. for saying that doctors should be allowed to be “healers, not bean counters or paper pushers”. And that they should get tuition assistance if they practiced in under-served areas.
AP highlighted the booing, but admitted it was only a “smattering”. From what I saw, it was a brief reaction to O’s statement that he didn’t favor capping malpractice awards. He easily turned it into a light-hearted moment.
No. That is NOT what President Obama is saying. What’s he’s saying is doctors have to stop putting patients through unnecessary treatments while they’re GUESSING on what is wrong with the patient which increases the cost of care. President Obama understands how expensive this is. My argument has always been….how many doctors are graduating medical school with a 4.0? Not many I suspect and this is why most doctors take forever to come up with a diagnosis because some don’t know what the hell they’re doing! Waste of time and money.
Seems the 14th Amendment in response to the Dred Scott/ Citizenship case also set the seeds for today servitude to corporations………
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
“In part as a matter of subsequent interpretations of the word “person” in the Fourteenth Amendment, U.S. courts have extended certain constitutional protections to corporations. Opponents of corporate personhood don’t necessarily want to eliminate legal entities, but do want to limit these rights to those provided by state constitutions through constitutional amendment.[3]”
“The Federal Constitution of 1788 did not mention corporations, thereby leaving the chartering of corporations to the states, since the Constitution did not explicitly say otherwise. In the late 1700s and early 1800s, corporations began to be chartered by the states. Corporations already existed in the new nation, but these were primarily educational corporations or institutions chartered by the British crown which continued to exist after the new nation was created from the Confederation. Due to experience as British Colonies and the accompanying corporate colonialism from British corporations chartered by the crown to do business in North America, new corporations were greeted with mixed feelings. Thomas Jefferson wrote in a 1816 letter to George Logan:[5]”
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/pe…..izing.html
Giving a good speech, even a powerful speech is fast becoming an Obama specialty. The question is can he turn it into effective policy. Given his current approach of universally mandated insurance, I would say no.
It’s important to remember that the AMA counts about 20% of this Country’s Physicians as members. They have been hemorrhaging support for years- because of this attitude of Profits over Patients.
I was just reading about the hard time one person is having: they need Provigil to work, they need to work to have health insurance, and the insurance won’t cover the Provigil. They’re wondering what they can do now, because their appeals for coverage failed, and they aren’t covered by other systems.
This is the face of the current health care system: if you can’t afford to buy drugs on your own, too bad. They don’t want to cover people who actually need insurance, they want to cover only healthy people with money to spare.
Oh, yeah: LA Union Station was infested with, I believe, LaRouchies this morning, handing out pamphlets opposing ‘Obama’s Nazi Health Care Plan’. (No, I avoided taking one. I think most of them ended up in the trash bins.)
Another big applause line today was when Obama said that insurance companies have to stop excluding people with pre-existing conditions.
In response to Selise at 2: Selise, I was at the VA clinic in El Paso waiting to see an opthalmologist as I have upcoming cataract surgery in both eyeballs when Obama came on the tube. Your take on protecting the insurance companies is an echo of the similar comments that were made by about 15 old geezer vets from WWII, Viet Nam, Gulf War I and assorted foreign sorties not much known by the general public. Also noted was his repeated effort to soothe those who are happy!! with their current coverage and want to keep it. Yeah, right. These old vets on medicare and those without who rely totally on the VA are right in the middle of the loop and they ain’t being fooled. They want medicare for everyone, and they want the doctor-businessmen who own hospitals, outpatient centers, imaging centers, and son on, to get the hell out of business and stick to practicing medicine. I was proud of my pals, even though I do not know them by name.
In EPUville but while it’s fresh.
I’ve just finished watching the speech in its entirety. Topics are so interconnected that no transcript or excerpt can do it justice. Not for its delivery but for its content. Ya have to watch it and ya have to pay attention.
He’s very comfortable in what I would think is a semi-hostile environment. Cheeks his tongue. Pulls his nose. Scratches his ear.
The only dissent I heard was on his not wanting liability caps. There may have been a boo or two but I think it was more like stage groaning, and pretty localized to his right. Prime seats for AMA leadership?
And if he didn’t take some heavy shots at the insurance industry I don’t know what to call them. Packaged all nice and subtle but there. Put the voice of POTUS behind complaints we’ve heard for years about defensive medicine, multiple tests, etc.
In commenting on innovation he mentioned a hospital in Tallahassee that uses multidisciplinary medicine. That blew my mind. Thirty years ago at the VA in Denver we called it interdisciplinary medicine. Physician, pharmicist, social worker, anybody involved in the patient’s treatment treating as a team vice individually.
thank you.
private health insurance adds something like $400 billion per year to our total health care costs. and it’s totally unnecessary.
we’re subsidizing insurance companies when we could be paying for health care for every resident.
Mr Obama reminds me of an old employer that shot me a nonstop line of bull.
Went over when he was writing my paycheck on Friday or Saturday night and told him to either double it or it would be my last one.
I thought Obama was another one of those slick tongued lying lawyering bastards from Illinois who was always GOING to do something. I haven’t changed my mind one whit.
I want Ms Pelosi to understand that impeachment IS back on the goddamn table, just another asshole in the dock. I could personally get him impeached on war crimes and torture right now. Joe Biden may not be great but Mr. Bullshit needs to see prison from the inside. Oh, that poor baby hasn’t had enough time to do shit. What a load of crap.
I could revoke DADT with a cold computer in fifteen minutes.
I could close GITMO in a day and a half.
I could have those poor bastards in the wars headed home in three days.
I could have half of congress under indictment in two months.
I could have 95 per cent of all insurance executives,stock brokers and huge bank presidents awaiting trial in a month.
I could fire everyone of the bushcheneygang in a week.
Fuck his rhetorical bullshit. Shit or get off of the pot, asshole.
Almost everyone who is employed is forced to pay into Social Security and Medicare. Is the same true of Obamacare? If not, you’re comparing apples with oranges.
Isn’t it amazing how some people go on and on about the ‘free market’ and then turn around and put subsidies into law for the oil and agriculture industries? It’s really bizarre hypocrisy.
I can’t say I know enough about ag to make suggestions except to say that there are experts on that topic who should be able to explain why the subsidies are necessary or we should begin reducing them.
Dems, and Libs in particular, might like an activist government for some purposes, but that doesn’t mean we want stupid government.
There are a lot of things being worked on and it’s going to take a while to see how they turn out. Patience is required.
Your point about mandatory participation goes to scale, not the structure of Social Security’s costs. The apple and apple comparison is between a not-for-profit program that pays competitive civil servant’s wages to those who run it, and a high-profit business that has a grossly inflated wage scale for its executives. The SS model as a deliverer of public service wins a cost comparison hands down.
“Private health insurance adds something like $400 billion per year to our total health care costs. and it’s totally unnecessary.”
“We’re subsidizing insurance companies when we could be paying for health care for every resident.”
Selise,
Bingo…… Now take into account the lack of tax revenue uncollected from this service industry due to tax exempt status? Can anybody come up with a number to quantify the % of corporate entities in the health services which operate as tax exempt organization? How many service industries in the for profit sector are competitive vialble and profitable, and pay corporate income taxes while meeting a basic need?
I will say it again…. abused tax exempt status within the health service industry insulates corporations from the use of incentives and disincentives, via tax code policy. Tax liabilities can be used drive down cost if policy is crafted, while the practice of legalized discrimination and adverse selection by corporations can go the way of the dinosaurs as did the institution of slavery, which we still today feel the effects!
Servitude to corporations enforced under the color of law by a tax or mandate is not Life, Liberty, or happiness. It is leveraged economic servitude at the price of one’s liberty and Life for the benefit of
slaveownershealth entities tax exempt or for profit.“Healthcare reform is not about forcing people to purchase insurance that they cannot afford, it about making healthcare affordable!” Yes you are correct Mr. President! Too life not some insidious form of corporate/governmental servitude concocted by corporations for the benefit of corporations while the republic and the governed are systematically sodomized into servitude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Silence is cancer!!!!!!!!!
http://www.thepriceofliberty.o…..nslade.htm
“The State of Massachusetts recently became the first State to require its residents to be covered by health insurance. Under this law, all uninsured adults will be compelled to purchase some kind of health insurance by July 1, 2007, or face legal penalties. This buy insurance or else legislation is patterned after the State’s auto insurance law that requires all operators of a motor vehicle to be covered by insurance.”
“Beginning in 2008, residents will be required to provide a detailed overview of their health insurance coverage on their state income tax return. Any one who does not have insurance would lose their personal state tax exemption and be hit with a penalty equal to half of the cheapest policy available in the State. Preliminary estimates put that amount at approximately $1,200.00 per year.”
“While this legislation is the ultimate wet dream for health insurance companies and big government liberals, it has a major flaw that, in the author’s opinion, renders the “buy insurance or else” component of the legislation unconstitutional.”
The preamble to the Massachusetts Constitution states:
“The end of the institution, maintenance, and administration of government, is to secure the existence of the body politic, to protect it, and to furnish the individuals who compose it with the power of enjoying in safety and tranquility their natural rights.”
Notice the use of the word “natural,” as opposed to “constitutional,” to describe the rights of the people. The phrase is repeated again in the text of the Constitution:
“All people are born free and equal and have certain natural, essential and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.”
The words “natural, essential and unalienable” are basically interchangeable and refer to the God-given (endowed by their creator) rights of the people. These rights exist independent of government or any written constitution. Thomas Jefferson expressed this principle in the Declaration of Independence:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Among the natural rights of the American people is the unlimited right of contract. This means you can choose to enter or not enter into a contract. In order for a contract to be valid, it must be voluntary. In the normal course of life, you cannot be compelled under threat or coercion to enter into a contract with anyone, including government.”
“This takes us to the Massachusetts health insurance legislation. When you take out an insurance policy you are entering into a contract with the insurance company. The new Massachusetts law, irrespective of how it is couched, is an enter into a contract or else program.”
“Think?????” A republican Mitt, Signed this into law while the former speaker of the house on Beacon Hill Sal DiMasi has been indicted of federal corruption charges?? GO figure!!!!!!!!!!!
I second that! Thank you bonkers, and indeed, Flamethrower @ 36.
I see Obama time and time again steering and showing perhaps too much patience for some to accept, but using public pressure to ensure he at least has a chance to accomplish his goals. Without that, and in today’s trying times, he might truly be toothless and helpless. If he succeeds…. we’ll know he was right after all. The man is NOT flailing around aimlessly, imo, fwiw.
Pardon, but no. You are accomplishing far more. Thank you. ;->
“Unnecessary treatment” is another descriptor of getting to the bottom of a diagnosis–hindsight, in other words. There is information is a negative finding, too, in ruling something out as well as in.
But that said, CT in lieu of physical exam is a very real problem. Most generalists rely more and more on imaging, expensive imaging. We the patients also bear some responsibility in wanting to know now rather than wait, in looking for “certainty” which imaging studies are more likely to give.