Update: Read Krugman’s column and blog today:
. . . the fundamental fact is that we can afford universal health insurance . . .
If you believe this New York Times story, the multi-millionaires who comprise the US Senate, people whose health care is covered with Platinum health plans for life, are pretending that the US doesn’t have enough money to provide quality universal health care.
This story is beyond insulting and should result in a surge in sales of pitchforks.
All but one of the Senators quoted here are Republicans who have no intention of providing universal care even if they believed it was affordable. What Sens. Grassley, Graham, Lugar, and McCain are doing, though, is playing a dishonest zero-sum game.
Their phony argument is that the US cannot afford to provide health insurance to all the uninsured without extracting diminishing health care for those who already have it, particularly those on Medicare and Medicaid. And the super-wealthy Diane Feinstein falls for the zero-sum ruse:
“I don’t know that he [Obama] has the votes right now,” said Dianne Feinstein of California, who joined Republicans in voicing reservations about the White House proposal. “I think there’s a lot of concern in the Democratic caucus.”
Ms. Feinstein, who appeared on CNN’s “State of the Union,” also said controlling the cost of a new health-care system, estimated to be at least $1 trillion, “is a very major and difficult subject.”
Ms. Feinstein has threatened to vote against Mr. Obama’s health care bill if it draws Medicare funds from high-cost areas like California to low-cost areas of the country. Ms. Feinstein noted that California’s population is greater than that of 21 states and the District of Columbia combined.
Also on Sunday, she suggested that the results of Mr. Obama’s efforts to repair the economy and overhaul the financial-regulatory system should be measured before taking on health care.
“What all of the impact of this is not yet known,” Ms. Feinstein said.
Thanks, DiFi. You just just got duped. So let’s recall the essential math:
First, the CBO financial scoring of the HELP and Finance Committee proposals, which frightened the Senate when it came up with $1-1.6 trillion in federal budget impacts, did not include the key measures to reduce costs — a public health plan to compete against the more expensive and uncompetitive private plans or the cost-containment effects of a vigorous federal oversight entity. So until now, no relevant CBO analysis has been done on these plans.
In contrast, CBO has done relevant analysis on other plans, which are getting very little attention, showing that the US can both cover everyone and do so in ways that are either budget neutral or actually lower total outlays. In other words, the Republican story is another lie. Who could have predicted?
Second, Senator McCain, who never misses an opportunity to confuse and demogogue an issue for political gain, is pulling numbers out of his arse when he claims expaned coverage would cost $3 trillion; there is no basis for this number. None.
Third and most important, the Republicans have duped the Senate and apparently the New York Times into believing this is a zero-sum game. They’re pretending that if you expand coverage, you increase costs and so have to take it out of someone else’s benefits. Wrong.
The issue facing the nation is not just the impact on the federal budget; it’s the total effect of health care costs across the economy. "It’s the economy, stupid," not the budget.
If we can reduce the nation’s total health care costs, it’s not a problem if part of the payments for the system cycle through federal taxes and federal payments for the public components of the total system. What matters is the total national bill and how the government collects revenues for its piece. So if the total cost of health care drops from (e.g.) 15 percent of GDP to 10 percent of GDP, but the federal budget piece of that goes up but is paid for in taxes, the country comes out way ahead. Plus we get universal care and better care.
There is strong empirical evidence — multiple examples — showing we can cover everyone, lower the nation’s total costs and costs per capita and maintain or improve the quality of care. We know this because every other country that has solved the problem of universal care did so at a cost only one half to two-thirds of what Americans now pay for both equal or inferior care while falling well short of universal care. But Americans insist on being chumps, and it’s partly because of the stupid scare games the Republicans are playing.
Our wealthy Senators are looking for money in all the wrong places, frightening the gullible like DiFi that the only way to expand coverage is to steal money from California’s Medicare benefits. That false framing will induce other gullibles to vote against expanding coverage and lowering total costs. Wrong.
Get a clue, Congress: "It’s the economy, stupid."
More:
Paul Krugman — the basic argument for health reform
Brad DeLong adds to Krugman’s point:
When an economist thinks about American health care, he or she begins with what we give up and what we get: we give up $1 trillion dollars in real resources a year relative to other countries, and we get… what?… not much.
Crooks and Liars, Lindsey Graham on This Week on why the public shouldn’t have the public health system he’s used most of his life





115 Comments
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About The Seminal
Advanced search
Dianne Feinstein was elected to the SF Board of Supervisors in 1969 and has been in public service ever since, except for 1988-1992. I’m sure she’s been health-care eligible that entire time. Those sprained and broken ankles aren’t free, you know! But she’s never faced an insurer over any of her possible pre-existing conditions.
But she seems to have no understanding of what the rest of us go through.
McCain, on the other hand, has no credibility on this issue whatsoever.
None.
You’re not suggesting, Teddy, that voters should pre-screen Senate candidates for previous conditions, and deny support based on that? Heaven forbid.
I hold you responsible for turning this woman around.
Thank you Scarecrow
I am known to have great influence with Senator Feinstein. Why, we met with her in April 2006 to protest the Administration’s planned attack on Iran. Look how well that turned out!
I am sure it will take only one call from me to get her back in line on the public plan.
Super-wealthy indeed (wiki):
sorry i put up a solidarity post,didnt see this one
http://lighthousepatriotjourna…..ein_01.jpg
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5887
as another commenter pointed out to me…the boomers will hit MEDICARE age soon…Insurance cabal/criminals need MANDATED Insurance,FOISTED ON Joe Sixpack THE PLUMBER
20 years ago, DiFi’s husband, Dick Blum, wouldn’t consider interviewing someone as a new client (invest their money) unless they were worth at least 100 million bucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z38H5McWSYM
When I saw a take off on the NTY report on this at Raw Story I wondered what in the world we could do. I remembered the Congressional contacts with contact numbers and the dialogue on all the areas that CBO didn’t cover which you alluded to above.
How about giving us that list and data again for calls this coming week?
Thanks to all for putting all this together for us in the ongoing saga.
There was a line in the morning sermon: It’s only the 4th chapter….. (perhaps first quarter for other constituencies) and we were reminded by someone this week, that the story wasn’t over, and those who are giving up in despair, or backtracking to Public Option is the only way to go because 646 is impossible this year….. without maintaining the maximum goal and working toward that are on the wrong track.
Blessings to all,
please don’t forget Blanche Lincoln -
she is the only one on Finance Comm up for re election in 2010 – she is #2 in Ins contributions this year.
Pushback if you can here
a really, really good one page read from ActBlue
I sent part of this to DiFi, with some additional comments about the insurance industry and the way they’ve managed to get theft legalized.
I doubt that it will get further than whichever junior staffer is delegated to counting e-mails.
F*ck the insurance companies. Sideways. With a garden implement.
THE UNITED STATES ALREADY HAS UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!
Per the Wikipedia:
This is an extremely expensive and ineffective way to provide healthcare both in terms of costs and outcomes. But it is “uniquely American,” which is what Obama says is his key criteria for any solution.
How much do we spend on that Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act?
That’s sort of a back-door way to mandate everyone ER treatment. I suppose Republicans voted against that too. In ‘86 it would have been Reagan who signed it into law. Now the House argues for a mandate and some subsidies and they’ll likely find plenty of nonsensical ways to argue against it.
If the mandate gets everyone covered, then the EMTALA will be what?
It seems the CBO HAS to count (almost) every dollar spent on that as a savings if the new bill becomes law.
If the bill prevents insurers from having doctors to reject claims, then there will be savings. If the bill standardizes forms, then that will save money. If health improves there will be less work lost and that gains us GDP. If people don’t have to use the ER that saves money. If more IT means less government and insurance co. work that saves money.
It’s complicated, but there are a lot of different effects of a bill this size. Savings from competition could be one of the biggest and yet hardest to estimate.
thank you Scarecrow, Feinstein voted for the 2002 war resolution, voted for Mukasey, for the Kyl Liberman amendment, This woman needs to be investigated for her families war profiteering and sent on her way. She should not be making decisions about our health care system.
Ever notice how much bling Senator Feinstein wears? She is a $$$ pig
Call your Senators tell them you want Senator Feinstein’s conflict of interest issue investigated?
She is a war profiteer. She certainly does not care about Iraq civilians nor American taxpayers
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/…..fiteering/
http://www.projectcensored.org…..t-in-iraq/
Thanks, DiFi. You just just got duped.
Good Lord — why should today be any different?
I’ve been trying to get this ultrawealthy clueless helmet-haired DINO replaced as Senator by a REAL liberal for years . . .
The main person who’s duped here is President Obama, however. What a useless excuse for a Democrat he is turning out to be. I’m about at the point where I declare I’m ashamed to have voted in 2008.
DiFi and the other DLCers are not getting duped. They know damn well what they’re doing. The entire ”centrist” Dem thing that’s dominated for decades now was carefully constructed and is carefully continued very intentionally by DiFi and her friends.
They are the ones doing the duping. We need to get this straight. Like Shrub, they are not dumb and naive, and are fulfilling their duties to BigMoney very successfully.
Obama is trying to undue this.
Was reading yesterday that 12,000 people a year in this country die from lack of health care. Does anyone know some real life stories that we can use when we write these rich senators? It might not help but I’m ready to try anything.
But she bought seersucker suits for all the lady Senators who didn’t have one, so they could be part of the boy’s club on “Seersucker Thursday”. In 2005, 11 of the 14 women Senators were appropriately attired on Seersucker Thursday thanks to Senator Feinstein.
Unfortunately, we missed all the attendant excitement of the sartorial showpiece of Senatorial seer suckerism as it fell on the 18th of this Month. I know you are all as disappointed as I am…
The Senate has become an absolute joke. When I think of the voices of the Senate in the past it makes me ill.
Harry Reid is the embodiment of it all – weak, spineless, and deferential.
How misleading this post is, I saw Diane Feinstein on television. She did us all a favor by telling the truth — that there are many democrats, moderates, blue dogs that are concerned about the cost of health care reform based on CBO projections, etc. To deny that is not an issue or at the very least the perception is to bury one’s head in the sand. And super wealthy somehow is a bad thing? Pay attention George Soros.
Wow. Our President makes a big push last week to demand a public option, which is likely to lead us to single-payer in short order. And best of all, we get there by using their own framing against them, namely “let the market decide,” since most people will quickly pick a public option over the current private choices. His approval rating takes it’s biggest dip since Prez also last week.
Now you’re tarring him with a 1986 law and the “we already have healthcare!” argument that is precisely what he’s fighting against?!?!?
We’re on the verge of a historic systemic change on this issue right now, and this place is still dominated by people pouting that Obama isn’t doing it exactly like I want it. Seeing the PR machine and BigMedia kick into overdrive on this issue, and the DLCers like DiFi rear their ugly heads again, it sure would be nice to have help from everyone that wants to see single-payer a reality.
Our very own House of Lords.
We need a redo on the constitution because it’s got a whole bunch of things that need fixin.
They manage to find the money for everything else they want to do – none of which is FOR the American people.
A few less military goodies would help do the job and fewer pork projects. The idea that the money can’t be found is laughable.
What do you mean
“Pay attention George Soros.” ?
With a third of them basically unaccountable at any time to their constituents, they have no qualms about making stupid remarks such as “A deal is a deal” (except when it is struck between the Government and the Citizens, that is) and “We need more Police”! I have absolutely no use for the “House of Lords”, for it is the place where good legislation goes either to die or to emerge in some horribly mutated form. Few bills emerge from the scrutiny of the Peerage serving the People for this we know is something the Nation cannot afford, certainly not while supporting the needs of Wall Street. Liquidity forever! They know we’re too timid to do anything about it anyway.
Terminate Congressional benefits plans: medical, dental, pension. We cannot afford them. They don’t need them.
Keep them for staff. They work a living.
Let Congresscritters wallow at the the trough of Social Security and Medicare. Let them see how generous those plans are, or at least stop being hypocrites in one small area of their professional lives.
I have long felt that Congressional pay should be linked to the Median Pay in their District.
Well well, so DF is taking bribes. Guess the citizens will have to remove her.
What is the recall proceedings for members of congress?
I think yesterday in the threads probably (?) someone mentioned that the Boomers are quickly moving to medicare, which puts pressure on the sinsurance scampanies to get theirs while they can.
Who could have predicted?
Sinsurance is not health care.
Indeed they are not getting duped – and maybe not POTUS either – “Healthcare Reform” has proven to be the mother of all fundraisers** hasn’t it?
it’s like being a Dominatrix when the Republicans are in town – everybody makes money
**Wall Street got
ourstheirs, Healthcare now on the table, but not to be outdone, stayed tuned for the Extractionist/Energy portion of our showwhy yes, I’m feelin’ a little cynical, why do you ask ?
One of the good things of this discussion is to see the disclosure of all these costly and pricey ties…last week it was Landrieu, Dodd, before that, of course Daschle etc etc etc. A lot of this has been known, or assumed, but to see the ties and therefore obligations spelled out in very high $$$$ is quite eye-catching and truthy. Thanks.
Anyone is quite forward looking to go into big debt to get elected…lifetime income guaranteed.
What? I am sure the Black Caucus would be all for that.
It was in reference to “super wealthy” in the headline. What on earth does that have to do with Dian Feinstein communicating the truth? That many democrats are having reservations based on the CBO cost for health care reform. Being wealthy is not a bad thing, there are many, many wealthy progressives. To lead off a post that way helps give credence to the whole “left-wing anti-capitalist” crap you hear from right-wingers. Totally unecessary and counter productive.
So we know, since they’re talking on record about it, that Repub operatives like Grover Norquist, Rove, etc are subversively using sites like HuffPo to “divide and conquer” Dems in order to prevent some of the difficult Liberal reform.
Many around the Liberals blogs are too “I’m taking my ball and going home!” to see this is happening and are falling right into the trap. They’re doing just what Limpbaugh, Luntz, etc want them to do. Way to play along…(unless of course you’re part of that intentional effort)
Thing is…I was the loudest critic I knew of Clinton and the DLC Dems during the 1990s, but my anger didn’t really start until 2-3 years when it was clear what their priorities were.
Obama is proving to be COMPLETELY different and has been from the get-go. This anger toward Obama has been consistent around much of the Liberals blogs since BEFORE HE WAS EVEN ELECTED. As an early defender of his, I’d take it back about two years, since that’s about the length of time it seems I’ve spent battling the exact same silly arguments. No amount of action or evidence seems to have any effect on the pouting. Shame, that is, since more can be done right now than at any moment in my lifetime at least.
Thanks Scarecrow. Your post is much more eloquent than I could muster. But here’s my letter to the good Senator:
I am so angry about this issue.
Dear Senator Feinstein,
Tell me something . . .
Why is a single payer universal health care system good enough for Canada but not for America? Or the United Kingdom, Japan, France Germany or Australia for that matter but not for America?
And . . .
Why is a publicly funded system good enough for the military and their families but not for me? Or all the federal employees and their families, seniors on Medicare, our Veterans, but not for me?
And by god explain to me why its good enough for YOU and not for me.
Tell me Senator. Let’s hear it.
I wrote a letter that will surely get a bot response:
Senator Feinstein,
I live in San Francisco for the last 22 years and you have been my Senate representative during most of that time. I am a preschool teacher, and taught your granddaughter, ______, when she was a wee girl. Although preschool teachers are paid very little, I am lucky enough to have a job that provides medical and dental benefits. If I were to lose these benefits, I have no idea how I’d pay for health care or insurance.
I just read an article that quotes you as siding with Republicans and saying the US can’t afford health care insurance for the people who do not have it. Millions of those are children whose potential will not be met because of health issues. I cannot help but feel this is easy for you to say from a lofty perch of wealth and privilege that has made it possible for you to have all your needs immediately met. Your position is unique and does not reflect the reality of San Franciscans, Californians or Americans who live without adequate access to health care.
Do you have any idea how many people in the US go bankrupt and lose their homes due to health crises they cannot afford? It is impossible to dismiss the interconnection of the lack of health care insurance, bankruptcies, and the foreclosure of homes and subsequent spiral into economic collapse we are now experiencing.
Please remember, the people of San Francisco, who you represent, are concerned with the issues of equal rights and justice. It is not acceptable for citizens of the US to languish in ill health because they cannot afford appropriate medical care. We have TRILLIONS of dollars to waste on Haliburton contracts and other profiteering corporations since beginning an unwinnable, mostly outsourced war in Iraq, but cannot fund our own peoples’ health and well-being? Insulting and ridiculous!
This is a case of priorities that are so skewed as to be the opposite of what is correct and morally right. One needs look no further for money to fund health care than the endless sucking vacuum of resources that is our involvement in Iraq.
As my Senate representative, I expect you to take the lead and DEMAND accountability for the Iraq war expenditures and REDIRECT those funds back toward our own problematic economy, most importantly toward funding health care or insurance for those citizens of the US who do not have it.
I appreciate your prompt attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
gogo
OK then. Please tell me how much health care reform the way you see it will cost. And where the money is going to come from. Something realistic please — let’s not waste time with “doing away with the Navy” ok?
OT Good News: The Sup Ct. did not change the Votings Rights act in a case that came up from TX…a little unexpected. Nice.
If you saw Feinstein on TV you would realize your letter is not truthful! She never sided with any Republicans and she never said we can’t afford health care for people who need it. Stop distorting!!!!
Re: Healthcare Issues
Phone calls & e mail go out daily to my reps!
Here’s today’s!
My children will work ’til they die! My grandchildren will pay their college loan on tuitions forever it looks like!
This can be changed if we contact OUR representative, senators and President!
The F.I.C.A. tax is capped at $106,800!
1.45% goes towards medicare and 6.2% goes to Social Security.
1.45% x $106,800 =s $1548.60
6.2% x $106,800 =s $6621.60
7.65% x $106,800 =s $8170.20
If a person earns $1,068,000 in 2009, that person will pay $6621.60 to Social Security! Not one cent more!
If a person earns $10,680,000 that person pays $6621.60 to S.S.! Not one cent more!
If a person earns $106,800,000 that person pays $6621.60 to S.S.! Not $66,216.00!
If a person earns $1,068,000,000 that person pays $6621.60! Not $ 662,160.00!!
$106,800,000.00 would pay $6,621,600 and so on……..! Not one cent more!
Considering the fact that all unused money in every fiscal year goes into the general fund, an IOU goes into a file, the middle income taxpayer gets the shaft!
As a matter of fact, we keep hearing social security and medicare is GOING BROKE!
Since our House and Senate have made these rules, will you please cut and paste this and send them a letter?
HELLO! Take the cap off social Security!
If a person earns more than $106,800, that person will pay 1.45 cents on each dollar over $106,800 for medicare but does not pay the 6.2 percent which goes to Social Security!
Isn’t anyone else concerned about this?
Considering the fact that all unused money in every fiscal year goes into the general fund, an IOU goes into a file, the middle income taxpayer gets the shaft!
As a matter of fact, we keep hearing social security and medicare is GOING BROKE!
Since our House and Senate have made these rules, will you please cut and paste this and send them a letter?
HELLO! Take the cap off social Security!
If a person earns more than $106,800, that person will pay 1.45 cents on each dollar over $106,800 for medicare but does not pay the 6.2 percent which goes to Social Security!
Isn’t anyone else concerned about this?
You can bet the tax rate of 6.2% will be reduced quickly if they removed the cap on Social Security!
mornin’,
the figure is 18,000. and it only represents those without any coverage. doesn’t reflect those who sought care too late due to financial considerations, those with no local access to healthcare, and all other forms of ‘under insured’. And in no way reflects those who literally suffer every gd day with chronic illness and little or no coverage
while I’m at it – 100 Million – almost 1 in 3 have ZERO dental care
that’s 49 ‘Neda’s’ a day in this country
I want a little green sign that reads Where Is My
VoteHealthcare ?think YOUR CYNICAL
please read and recomend my new diary
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5896
Raise taxes for uber-wealthy more and close most loopholes (as Obama has already done and suggested he wants to much more of). We pay the same every year on military as the entire world combined does on their militaries, and 6 times more than 2nd place China. How about cutting military spending to 3-4 times what China spends? And, if there’s single-payer National healthcare, won’t VA spending go down dramatically, which I assume is a large chuck of our military spending?
I know some wealthy Liberals who started and ran their businesses in the 70s or 80s, eventually retiring. They talk about the 70% upper tax bracket and how they’d pay themselves up to that amount and keep more money in the business, which made everything more sustainable. One did REALLY well, and entered that bracket anyway, and admitted it’s a little weird to pay so much tax, he still retired young and is set for life. The higher taxes do not serve as a disincentive to make more money. I’m working my ass off to be able to enter the highest tax bracket!
Of course, then there’s the whole we need to start producing more products, you know actual physical things, but that’s another discussion and I was trying to give some quick responses to your question.
Yes! and that too…
@redfish: True, I did not see her on TV, and yet, that is irrelevant.
My comment still stands: stop spending on Iraq and demand accountability and restitution for “lost” and stolen funds gone missing to corporate war profiteers, and spend that money on health care. Problem solved.
She’s MY senate representative and it’s MY letter to write, not yours. End o’ story.
~~~gogo
There’s only one devil here, and that’s the guy we all voted for. By failing to provide LEADERSHIP, he’s allowing all the special interests to exert their influence. Obama could stop all this bullshit in a heartbeat, but evidently he has better things to do.
Harrassment of the insured would ease a lot under single payer. The elimination of the profit for stockholder will absorb tha cost of covering the uncovered. State abd counties can no longer help the poor.
This is a fucking crisis!!!!!
Go! Go! gogo! you rock
@CTlil “This can be changed if we contact OUR representative, senators and President!”
I am stunned that there are still so many people who believe that.
infected gums cause HEART DISEASE and PANCREATIC CANCER google it
Are you a robot?
Not going for the IMF would have been a good start. We all know the pork is in every bill for things we don’t need and the Congress puts it in to make members happy. The folks back home just think it’s wonderful but they aren’t paying attention.
Well John,
Here’s Dodd’s answer to me:
John,
You may consider yourself a drop in the bucket….But many buckets can be a deluge!
See my first comment about #44
Private insurance companies have an overhead of 25-35% for administrative costs. They also have raise premiums around 66% in the last year in some areas. In California they write brand new policies from last year to get around dis-enrolling members and increasing premiums.
The VA system is owned by the government, the facilities, clinics, employees are FEDERAL employees…… VA negotiates for prescription drugs and other health care supplies. THERE IS THE SAVINGS.
Standard Medicare has an administrative cost under 5%, providers are private practitioners and accept the Medicare schedule fee that is written BY congress. The worst thing is the RX plan that needs to be taken in like the VA and negotiated.
IT has been know for decades that big Pharma has made big money of the US population on drugs…… Why are their buses running weekly to Mexico and Canada to fill drugs at a discount?
There is a strong connection on how long someone in congress has been on some government plan and the amount they have received in pay off from the health insurance complex.
Ya think that Bacus and DiFI give a fuck on my personal battle with cancer, application to social security disability and all that entails?
sent this to Ted Kennedy and his wife…with a note on single payer…Lion of the Senate etc.
http://www.giftbizbuzz.com/pic…..20Lion.jpg
Cheers, sadlyyes.
And I agree about dental health care…I know a woman who just died a couple months ago from mouth cancer. She did not see a dentist regularly and by the time it was discovered, she was already very ill. Not sure if it was an aversion to dentists or lack of access issue, but either way, the worst possible result: lengthy, painful illness resulting in disfiguring surgery and then death.
~~~gogo
There are many projects that are necessary and/or desirable and are not “pork” as defined generally. A representative or Senator’s job is to do the best they can for their state or district. I am not saying they always do – but that’s the fallacy in general bashing of “pork”. You can debate the merits of IMF – the reality is that the perception is that Obama was saying we care about poorer countries surviving this global economic slowdown. To side with Republicans albeit for mifferent reasons and make Obama look like he does not have the power to deliver so early in his presidency would have been wrong headed in my opinion.
Ms. Feinstein’s family has considerable wealth, “super wealthy” is an accurate term. She is one of the top 0.1% in America whose wealth grows out of all proportion to the rest of America’s.
It is politically relevant, especially to the health care debate, as it would be to a debate over regulating the defense industries that made her husband a billionaire. It reveals a host of potential conflicts of interest that would pit her personal interests against those of her constituents and 99% of Americans.
Taxing is the most obvious. Taxing hedge fund managers at the normal rate, rather than a derisory 15%, which is less as a percentage of income than a SFO bus driver pays. Inheritance taxes, the top tax bracket, the plethora of exemptions, tax dodges and loopholes are others. So is whether to remove the cap on Social Security payments, which no longer makes sense and is depriving SS and Medicare of money they need.
Social influences from that much wealth are also relevant. We all want to be admired and respected by those immediately around us. Dale Carnegie, for example, donated his fortune to charitable works at the end of his life. But he made it through brutal, ruthless labor relations and anti-competitive practices. And he was a piker compared to his peer John D. Rockefeller, whose family donated much to charity after JD had left the building for a variety of reasons, including protecting the wealth they kept by appearing to be socially conscious.
It means that DiFi’s social peers are not middle Americans, but those like her, who have much to lose from promoting progressive policies, including a more open and transparent government, and a more open and transparent reporting system for lobbyists meeting with Congresscritters.
She exemplifies the millionaire Congresscritters who are deciding on our social programs – health care being primary among them. It’s rather like expecting celibate white male Southern Europeans to be knowledgeable counselors about child, family and sexuality issues. That something is lost in translation is an understatement, as is that their commitment to a way of life foreign to most of us might limit or prejudice their views.
DiFi is financially independent and could do a Roosevelt: advocate views antithetical to her financial class because it’s the right or politically responsible thing to do. The evidence suggests that’s not how she acts.
I understand your sentiments and hope that some reasonable outcome is a result of the powers that be kicking this around this time. I wish you the very best.
This is the exact den wolves Obama has entered and is clearly trying to fix. He has earned and deserves support from those who also want to change the sick system.
You can write whatever you want. Your letter was not accurate and you distorted the facts. If that’s ok with you — go for it.
Hear Here!
Castigating people for being wealthy is counter-productive. It presents liberals and progressives as anti-capitalist and reinforces the socialist sterotype nonsense the extreme right is spouting. I think addressing the issues is a far more effective way to communicate a message.
@redfish:
Consider it gone. Your permission is not needed or accepted.
~~~gogo
a must read diary from daily kos today: Two Years since SiCKO: Have Americans seen any Progress?
check out especially the part on unnecessary deaths
please, please give this one a read.
a RED HERRING concern troll
Much depends on what you include in the “cost” of health care. For starters, it ought to include the cost of not getting it or not getting it in time. It ought to include what percentage of each health care dollar actually pays for health care.
A big chunk goes to insurance company profits and “administrative costs”, now defined in a way only a Hollywood accountant could understand or appreciate. Administration was once a legitimate and primary purpose for this line of business. As was true in energy utilities, it’s now become the foundation for a broader and more profitable line of business. In the case of health care, it comes from denying coverage, delaying payments, maneuvering patients through paperwork and procedural bottlenecks that are about boosting profits, not managing health care or its costs, though the latter role is what they tout.
That came about, in part, because insurers are now bigger than nearly all their customers and because employer customers are ceding the field entirely to the insurers.
When the Right talks about “free markets” and retaining a “competitive marketplace”, it’s usually a sure sign that the industry they’re discussing involves neither. If it did, its workings would not usually rise to political prominence.
He hasn’t earned it yet, but he is the only horse in town.
twain, i completely agree with you. but if you want some ammunition on how much reform based on what looks like a good public plan could cost (or rather save), i recommend to you pete stark’s bill hr 197. i x-posted drsteveb’s diary on it:
DrSteveB: Strong Public Option: 100% Coverage & Cost Control
i have posted a free down load to show all the friends and family
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5888
later gotta run….new rescue puppy….pics later
name ELLIE MAE
But my right to comment on your distortions and misrepresentations isn’t.
It is disingenuous to talk about “castigating” people for wealth. The issue is what they do with it and what conflicts of interest having – and keeping – it generate in the hands of a lawmaker.
Having enormous wealth – not just being successful or well-to-do – has undeniable influences over how one sees issues and over one’s willingness to act on them. It is as relevant in this discussion as whether one is chronically healthy or sick, self-employed or chronically unemployed, or a long term lobbyist for the insurance industry.
Denying the influence of money over how public officials make decisions is like viewing anatomy through a 1950’s grade school diagram of the human body. They were about as accurate and representative as the original Barby and Ken dolls.
I’m sorry you consider telling the truth a red herring. If standing up for the truth makes me a troll – where do I get a teeshirt I’ll wear it proudly.
It does not “necessarily have undeniable influence” and that is the problem. You need facts to make that connection stick. Just being wealthy is not enough. I think many people’s altruism and belief system trumps the desire to accumulate more wealth. From the Dixie Chicks on down.
Facts are relevant. Truth is what we’re seeking.
YOUR buffoonery has NOTHING to do with truth telling
go
MONGER your red herrings elsewhere
Speaking of how money influences politicians…
That’s one thing about the “Obama=Bush” crowd I don’t get. Yes, an overwhelming majority of DeeCee politicians would not be there without the financial support and operations they get from BigMoney outlets. Don’t know for a fact, but I’d guess this is true with DiFi, since I’m not aware of some groundswell of grassroots support for her.
This argument simply does not apply to Obama. Yes, he raised huge amounts from all sorts of industries, but Obama raised much, much more from “We, the people…” than he did from big donors. If the logic of the above argument is applied to Obama, he is by far more beholden to the common American than he is to uber-rich people. This is NOT true for most of the other politicians.
So all this “Obama is serving his corporate masters” talk makes no sense.
I understand the truth and facts are hard for some to take when it doesn’t support their agenda. I believe to have any shot at getting meaningful health care reform the left side of the aisle should be careful not to play into right-wing extremists hands. Accusing Democrats of things they didn’t say and didn’t do is counter productive.
So,
This is affects ALL taxpayers rich and poor:
;)
“If you believe this New York Times story, the multi-millionaires who comprise the US Senate, people whose health care is covered with Platinum health plans for life, are pretending that the US doesn’t have enough money to provide quality universal health care.”
????? Are you kidding me??? Do you actually think we do have the money to afford nationalized healthcare?? You people are economically illiterate!!!
It is also amazing how you libs will eat your own… If they don’t agree with your twisted thinking you will seek to destroy them…
‘Tis said that DiFi’s actual complaint was that she was not getting enough attention regarding the health care issue and was feeling ignored.
Hey, DiFi, if you want stroking, live in a petting zoo. Otherwise, grow up. Cutting off your constituents noses to spite their faces would unfortunately leave a lot of Californians noseless given that so many have no medical insurance or junk insurance.
So DiFi doesn’t think the votes are there to pass health care reform? Well go get the damn votes then. Start with your own! Quit bitching and start doing your job.
“There’s a lot of concern in the Democratic Caucus” The ought to be! You’re on the bubble with the voters!
Enough of this.
Look, President Obama is trying to do what is right by the American people, by providing affordable health care for ALL Americans. People like Feinstein who call themselves democrats, but are more republican, are stumbling blocks to President Obama’s agenda, for which he was overwhelmingly elected. If Feinstein votes against health care, particularly the public option, it is time Californians show her the door. Feinstein’s siding with George W more times than not, and her vote to confirm Mukasey was enough to show her the door…..if she helps republicans defeat health care she should get a pink slip from the voters.
That’s such a convincing argument. Thank you for sharing your insights. In light of your input, I shall reconsider my stance.
This is the headline on a MoveOn e-mail I just received.
“Health care reform is in trouble in the Senate”.
Same thing that Diane Feinstein said. Exactly!
The US Senate is the American equivalent to the U.K.’s House of Lords, except instead of peerage, it’s the balance in your checkbook that gets you into the club.
Posted at the NY Times http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes…..t-1468219:
@ #1 Lenny — that is brilliant idea on having the Representatives and Senators pay for their own health insurance!
But let’s take it a step further — kick them off the government plan all together. Let them contact the very few heath insurance providers (i.e. monopoly) in their districts and states to research and attempt to buy affordable health care on their own without the government’s buying power. Further, let all the rich media personalities “reporting” (and I use that term loosely) on universal health care do the same since it is all about the horse race to them instead of facts and context. (Countless outlets left out the amazing number of 85% favoring a government health insurance plan.)
John McCain would be out of luck for sure with all those pre-existing conditions he has — and Dianne Feinstein – surely at her age, there would be issues. But all the Senators (I think) are millionaires so still . . . at least they can afford it.
But perhaps the folly of health insurance being affordable and readily available would be more transparent to them.
And perhaps they would finally be outraged at the fact that the top 23 CEO’s of the health insurance and big pharma industry raked in approximately 4.9 billion (with a b mind you) dollars over 5 years in compensation – yes, their own personal compensation of $4,900,000,000.00, by refusing to cover medical expenses as well as declining coverage to those with pre-existing conditions.
Interesting read
http://www.realclearpolitics.c…..state.html
If, as you seem to believe, the US cannot afford universal coverage, then it follows that there must be some mechanism to ration care back to the level we can afford. The question would become, how should that rationing occur, and who should do the rationing?
1. We could, as some market advocates suggest, let the ”market” ration by price; the wealthiest could afford whatever they wanted; the middle class might be able to afford some care, but not all they wanted or needed; and the less well off would receive essentially nothing.
2. We could ask the private insurance industry to ration care, as they do today. The insurers would set premiums at the levels permitted by their oligopoly situation (since in most regions, insurance is highly concentrated) and that would tend to have the same effect as option 1. The insurers would also, as they do today, further ration care by systematically denying claims and coverage to the most costly patients, to bring their costs in line with the premiums, meaning the sickest would be rationed out of coverage. That is what the private market does today.
3. We could try to provide care for everyone, but ration the amount by our willingness to pay taxes for this public need. If we devoted more dollars, we could cover more and afford higher quality; if we devoted less, we would cover less and afford lower quality. Politics would then determine the balance/level of taxes vs care deemed acceptable.
So those are the basic choices. But the thing is, the countries that have chosen option 3 manage to cover everyone at lower costs than we pay, and yet provide quality (health outcomes) no worse, and sometimes better, than what our system provides. And we dont’ cover everyone while they do. Those are the established facts.
Since multiple studies have established those facts, it seems to me the burden shifts to the opponents of the third approach to prove why we shouldn’t choose it.
The incomplete CBO cost studies of the Senate plans found they didn’t cover enough people and cost more than some expected. Perhaps we should rate a plan that actually covers everyone and that is based on concepts from elsewhere that the studies show actually lower costs. To ignore this option seems irrational, no matter what your left-right philosophy.
And one more thing: a true conservative advocate of market theory knows that if there is no effective competition, because the market is highly concentrated, then the promised benefits of a genuinely, efficient, competitive market do not obtain. A genuine conservative would then agree that in that condition, regulation of the monopoly/oligopoly is appropriate and consistent with market theory, because otherwise you get less supply, lower quality and higher prices that an effiicient market would produce. That’s just standard economics. We may even have a condition of natural monopoly, because of all the barriers to entry, the lack of a homogenous commodity, merger/concentration, costs of acquiring information, and so on.
I’m waiting for just one conservative to acknowledge what all the market-based economic texts tell us. No real competition => no competitive outcomes. What’s the response?
This debate isn’t about money or economic literacy. It’s about priorities and who gets a voice in setting them. The government finds plenty of money for things it wants to do: bail-out banks – in the way it did it – for example. Not to mention needless wars, tax dodges for exceptionally profitable businesses, for corn producers when we’re dying of corn sugar supplemented processed foods, etc.
The beltway chattering about cost is hilarious. The object is whether to protect a relatively young, but exceptionally profitable industry at the cost of leaving tens of millions without care and tens of millions more with inadequate care. From that industry’s perspective, true competition is the last thing it wants. It wants to protect not just its exceptional profits, but it’s reason for existing. It will gin up any argument it can to maintain or strengthen its position and is spending handsomely in Congress as part of that plan.
The underlying issue is the government’s relationship with business in general. Many people, especially those inside the beltway, view government’s job as subsidizing businesses – definitely not leaving them alone to rise or fall strictly on their own merits. Those not afflicted by beltway myopia think government’s job is to respond to its electorate’s needs and priorities. Common defense may be ongoing – though what’s necessary to achieve that is far from clear. Infrastructure, schooling, public disease prevention are other commonly agreed aims. A majority of Americans think health care should be added to the list, just as Europeans did more than fifty years ago.
This debate is also about what share of government’s attention and their own tax dollars ordinary working Americans will receive. A hundred years ago the human rights battle was about child labor and mandatory education. Seventy-five years ago, it was about regulating the excesses of banks and securities marketeers, which, along with a self-destructive trade policy, brought us to our needs and threatened a real socialist revolution. (A battle the Right has never stopped waging.) Post World War Two, it was about public health, including mandatory vaccinations for preventable or controllable pandemic diseases.
In Europe, health care is a basic human right, like the vote, like schooling for children. Here, the “cost” argument hides arguments about the voice people will have in their own society and their own well-being.
Government itself is nothing more than people acting collectively. The health care debate is about who will have a voice in saying where our collective tax revenue goes, who it will benefit, and who will profit from it.
Take the 30 to 40% of health care spent on insurance company overhead and use that to provide health care for those who don’t have it.
here’s an analysis
Or take it from the defense budget, for without a healthly citizenry, what’s to defend?
Yes
here’s an analysis
What Digby said about earmarks applies equally to the debate about health care reform:
Why doesn’t Obama and Congress just take Jack Welch’s advice and let people die. That would save us a ton of money.
It’s amazing such callousness is coming from a man who is 150 years old. Jack Welch is a piece of work.
Here’s the clip.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=1916
Home run, Bonkers!
And it’s way past time for us to realize the truth of it. The hard fight is starting now; dumping the GOP was just the light work.
Heavy lifting ahead. Vote for challengers, show up at town meetings and tell Sen. Feinsteins voters what she really votes for. Remind them it usually ain’t them.
The health care debate, properly framed, also includes the consequences of other government programs, especially tax subsidies for protected groups, like big ag, which are enormously costly and destabilizing and which go to a few big producers and very few “family farms”.
Examples include the following:
The biggest might be corn subsidies, which make corn a preferred source for sugary additives to virtually every processed food – the middle sixty percent of the grocery story – and the primary feed for commercially raised cattle, which are as fed as unnatural a diet as any force-fed goose whose liver is destined for fois gras. The resulting unnatural, fatty meat, rich in diet-induced antibiotics and growth hormones, and its low price, helps keep our arteries clogged and our blood pressure high. Corn and related sugars populate cereals, sodas, baked goods, ice cream, your favorite crackers, gums and candies, you name it. The FDA’s good food chart also subsidizes an unhealthy diet of big ag products.
Non-enforcement of labor laws is good for employers. It makes employees prone to injury and keeps them working while injured, as does Antonin Scalia’s son’s success in falsely labeling workplace ergonomics as witch doctory. The consequence is that employers change the employee rather than employ workplace practices that keep their current employees safer and healthier.
Lax state enforcement of pesticide control, even for the questionable but legal products available, ensures that we eat more of what’s not good for us. Lax enforcement and gutting of EPA regulations means our lungs and hearts and livers are working overtime eliminating toxic substances, which prematurely ages them and makes them prone to injury. Ditto, until the Obama administration, of lax regulation in the tar and nicotine delivery system known as tobacco. The list goes on.
Employers concluded a decade ago that they couldn’t keep their corporate health care costs low if their employees were uniformed and continued to make seriously unhealthy choices. Nutrition advice and exercise rooms were meant to treat work like home to keep employees on the job, not to pamper them. Less responsible employers, or those in declining industries, just broke the compact they’d worked under since the Second World War and stopped providing health insurance.
It’s time that Congress learned that health care costs include more than what’s on the doctor or hospital bill. Their policies directly affect our individual and communal health.
Thank you for the heads up for this. I went and read it–wow.
Not at all. I’m hoping to arm him (and everyone else) with the arguments that (1) there’s nothing unAmerican about “universal healthcare” and (2) we’re already paying for an crappy version of universal care via higher insurance premiums.
It sure would be great to see Obama show up for this fight the way he did last week for continued funding for his Afghanistan surge. Robert Reich is begging him.
thanks!
Real Healthcare reform and a Manhattan project on clean energy are the only things that are going to pull this country out of the ditch. period.
DING !
Ding! Ding!
Not to worry, Scarecrow; collectively, we CAN afford to be standing at the Mesopotamian urinal, more than 6 years after the initial leak, merrily whizzing away that $2-plus billion a week, with no bladder pangs evident to either republicans OR democrats.
Do we get a Sun King too?
I don’t recall.
That’s as much a political question as financial. As limited as our Congress may be it is they who are best suited to finding the right point — where we can afford it, politicians can vote for it and where it’s effective.
Maybe you’re a different breed, a REDFISH HERRING. Heh.
More competition in the healthcare industry could lower costs.
More kinds of energy in the mix also improves competition and cost control.
More domestic energy sources improves our trade balance.
More Green energy sources might save the planet.
It’s all good.
Uhhhh…he did. All last week. He went on the road to “red” parts of the country literally demanding that he wants to see a “public option” in any bill that comes to his desk.
As someone who has been an active participant in grassroots, on the ground activism for single-payer for my entire adult life, perhaps the most important issue of our generation, I was initially pissed about all this public option talk. Calming down and thinking through and watching things play out, I now think the public option approach of Obama is a subversive way to get single-payer faster than I ever expected. This is based on the idea that so many people will choose the public option so quickly that a mass movement to publicly funded healthcare will occur, that we’ll be well on our way to single-payer.
This is a brilliant move. It’s using the Repub frames against them, namely “the market” will choose government-funded healthcare, and DeeCee politicians aren’t forcing it upon people. Assuming it will play out this way, which seems quite plausible to me, I’m overwhelmed at how exciting and smart this is. BigMoney’s reaction to the “public option” furthers my belief in this theory, since they’re going crazy over what first seemed so innocuous. They feel this will happen as well with a public option.
It would be nice if fellow Liberals would try to think a couple steps ahead, and not be knee-jerk claiming that Obama is simply a BigMoney tool (which is demonstrably false), but it doesn’t really matter. We’re going to get government-funded healthcare available for all with or without you. It’s just a matter of whether folks like yourself want to be able to tell the next generations that you helped make national healthcare happen in America or not. Your choice.
We’re entering a “all hands on deck” moment in American history.
Whoops, got to correct my math made in haste!
As well as my letters to Dodd & Courtney:
Taking the cap off the Social Security F.I.C.A. tax will accomplish two wonderful things! For starters, it will fill the coffers allowing money for many purposes, one being Single Payer Healthcare…….medicare for ALL!
The second major happening will be a cut in the 6.2 tax which is a major burden on middleclass taxpayers!
Well that is the beginning of my e mails and calls today.
Here it is:
.
I can dream can’t I?