Everything that happened in the health reform effort last week was expected.
The Senate Finance Committee failed, again, to produce any "bipartisan" revenue or policy agreement, because not one of Baucus’ "coalition of the willing" is willing to fix what everyone knows is broken. If anything emerges from this group, it will likely be an insult to reform advocates.
Once again, Senator Conrad failed to provide any definition of his nebulous co-op proposal. He hasn’t released a credible policy paper or even a description that explains how his "non-federal" member-controlled state co-ops can function at a national level or compete against mega insurers. We don’t know how it could be governed or have industry-wide leverage on the cost issues that CBO worries about. And if it’s not national, there’s a portability problem. In short, it can’t do what a national public option can do unless it becomes a national public option.
We’ve had local co-ops for decades, and some are fine in their limited markets, but they’d done nothing to keep the insurance and provider industry from becoming more and more concentrated, from fixing prices and from raising rates/premiums three times faster than wages. Someone needs to ask Kent Conrad, "where’s the beef?" because he’s been getting a free ride.
The Senate’s failures were obscured by the nasty dispute in the House Energy and Commerce Committee. It was an opportunity for the Blue Dogs to prove they’ll use any excuse to undermine reforms.
But much of the media continues to assume the Blue Dogs actually care about fiscal responsibility, even though the Dogs’ actual proposals would, as Krugman notes today, raise costs or undermine the reforms. Attention media: Paying more money to their local providers, raising public plan rates above Medicare levels and weakening the public plan’s ability to force private insurers to compete will raise costs, not lower them.
And despite the fact that Orszag and Obama have been pushing for months to strengthen MedPAC and create an independent advisory council to recommend cost-effecive provider reforms, the media keeps reporting this as though it were the Blue Dogs’ idea with liberals opposed to cost-cutting per se. Gibberish.
The real debate is between the Executive and a wary Congress, which knows a future Republican Administration could use the advisory council’s independence to undermine Medicare and Medicaid benefits. Liberals are right to demand more safeguards before agreeing.
Apparently the media can’t see the connection between increasing payments to the health providers that dominate most rural areas and the campaign contributions that flow into Blue Dog coffers. The Dogs are not saving the federal budget; they’re extracting pork — rents to reward their contributors, the insurers and providers that dominate local markets.
And no matter how many concessions they extract, they’ll demand more. They can do that because they don’t care if health care reform fails. The people they’re negotiating with do care, and that’s why the extortion works. It would be helpful if the media could stop fawning and call them out.
The least surprising event occurred at the end of the week when the CBO rendered another predictable but useless "score" claiming that the advisory council’s incentive reforms won’t save much money. Why did we even ask them?
CBO concedes it has no clue how to estimate the effects of payment incentive reforms that make sense but can’t be quantified until they’ve been tried. So far, the CBO has provided one useless analysis after another.
But that’s the pattern here. We have CBO doing analyses that often don’t or can’t measure what matters, Blue Dogs making demands that should earn them contempt, and the media unable to recognize who’s trying to sabotage reforms.
Then we have self-appointed Senate negotiators pretending that if you don’t pose a major challenge to the profit-based insurers and providers who have a secure stranglehold on America’s health care system, you can fool the American people one more time. They may be right.
The reformers have one shot, a slim one, at changing that equation, and it’s planting the seeds of a public plan that can redefine the model and challenge the industry over time. As I’ve written several times, the current bills deliberately hobble the public plan and strictly limit access in the initial years. And they have little choice, because if they open the gates too soon or too wide, and thus increase the need for subsidies, the CBO will score the bill’s budget impact at levels that could never be supported by a Congress that can’t even agree that the wealthiest 1 percent are long overdue for contributing more to the public interest.
That’s where we are, and it’s discouraging, but no one told us this would be easy. It’s still worth fighting for, IMO, so don’t even bother me with the cynicism. It’s not helping.
Update: A good read on CBO cost estimates: Maggie Mahar, Who is Douglas L. Elmendorf and why is he throwing cold water on health reform?
Also worth reading:
Paul Krugman, Why markets can’t cure healthcare
David Leonhardt, Forget who pays the medical bills; it’s who sets the costs
Peter Orszag, CBO and IMAC
Leonhardt, more on the CBO vs Orszag; also, Challenge to health reform
Ezra Klein, the ghosts of Clintoncare
NYT editorial, pretty good summary of the major bills
Think Progress/Wong Room, starting here with Grassley spinning
Kaiser Health News, summary of Wyden plan
NYT Caucus, new CBO estimate of number of workers that would lose and gain insurance at work





48 Comments
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About The Seminal
Advanced search
Are there any HR3200 mavens here who know if HR3200 pre-empts (that is, outlaws) state experiments with single payer? Thanks!
On Kucinich amendment:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7266
It’s not that HR 3200 specifically prohibits state experimentation but that existing federal barriers would need to be waived, regardless of the specifics of the national reform bill. See the Dear Colleague letter reprinted in my earlier post on the Kucinich amendment.
The least surprising event occurred at the end of the week when the CBO rendered another predictable but useless “score” claiming that the advisory council’s incentive reforms won’t save much money. Why did we even ask them?
i’m not sure why y’all believe that ‘incentives’ will save appreciable amounts of money just because on paper they ‘make sense’. pay-for-performance schemes of all kinds, including some pilot programs in medicare, have at best mixed results. this has been shown to be true across all kinds of industries.
and while fee-for-service is frequently demonized for ‘incenting’ overtreatment, other ‘payment reforms’ such as bundling payments, have built-in incentives for undertreatment. yeah, that’s just what i want the next time i end up in the emergency room, the hospital making more money by NOT treating me.
oh but wait! we’ll combat that tendency — if you have to be rehospitalized, we won’t pay for it! so there! on paper, this threat should be enough to guarantee that you’ll get enough of the right kind of care the first time around….
this is all made even funnier [if it weren’t so serious] by progressives’ whinging that cbo is looking at everything individually, when if they’d just look at the totality of the reforms, the savings will magically multiply! which is all very funny because the proposed ‘reforms’ themselves are piecemeal efforts, without employing the totality of the models [vha, mayo] they cite as proof that their reforms will work.
cbo is right to score these things conservatively.
oh good grief, i just read the latest letter from elmendorf, via ezra klein, and now i’m wondering about the logic skills of some of you people. weren’t progressives recently touting the lower price tag of ‘reform’ [now down to $1 trillion, instead of the original $1.6 trillion] that comes from not starting the exchanges — and subsidies — until 2013? if you’re going to wait until 3 or 4 years into a bill to start spending so that it will have a smaller effect on the 10-year window, why are you surprised that waiting 6 years to implement some [iffy — and elmendorf’s reasoning holds up here] savings is going to have an even smaller impact on that 10-year window?
I have no idea who the “y’all” are in your comment or why you presume to ascribe to unnamed progressives a set of views. I know a strawman argument when I see one.
I just got off the phone with Representative Grijalva’s office and an aide said that the CPC sent a letter to President Obama on Friday in support of the House bill’s key provisions. I am looking online now to see it the letter was posted. We could reference the letter when we speak to our Progressive caucus members in the Whip count.
Here it is: http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/…..ItemID=463
oops: here’s the one to the President: http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/…..%20222.pdf
I think the point of the Orszag plan is to fund studies to determine best practices, and to pay for those and only those unless there is a reason to use some other treatment. The example is prostate cancer. Which treatment is best and why? If we knew that, we could control costs by going with it.
Then we have self-appointed Senate negotiators pretending that if you don’t pose a major challenge to the profit-based insurers and providers who have a secure stranglehold on America’s health care system, you can fool the American people one more time. They may be right.
let’s see what sort of reception they get when they go home for recess and let’s see what the turnout is on single payer demonstration.
Love the Krugmeister:
The use of the phrase “you people” exposes the identity of a dedicated listener to Limpy Limbaugh.
Have you looked at the exempt tax status 990 forms of Kaiser and Banner Health! Have you seen the billions of dollars in premiums collected by alleged not for profits, who have no tax liabilities? Want a cost control mechanism in healthcare??? Revoke tax exempt status of corporation like Kaiser BCBS and use the tax incentives and disincentives against the health insurance corporations like Congress does to the American people!!
Just type in Health???
http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/P…..earch.php/
2008 – Ajo Community Health Center (860871311)
2007 – Amalgamated Retiree Health and Welfare Trust (860353695)
2007 – American Health Legal Foundation (362991388)
2006 – Arizona Adolescent Health Coalition (860854346)
2008 – Arizona Association and Health Underwriters (860687107)
2004 – Arizona Association of Adult Day Health Care (860540600)
2004 – Arizona Association of Adult Day Health Care (860540600)
2008 – Arizona Association of Community Health (860494702)
2007 – Arizona Behavioral Health Corporation (860888064)
2007 – Arizona Bricklayers Health and Welfare Trust Fund (866052292)
2007 – Arizona Foundation for Behavioral Health (860926611)
2007 – Arizona Health Care Association (860227208)
2007 – Arizona Health Care Foundation (311628106)
2007 – Arizona Health Information Management Association Azhima (860341667)
2007 – Arizona Health Information Network Incorporated Azhin (860746437)
2008 – Arizona Institute for Breast Health Inc (860940150)
2004 – Arizona Laborers Teamsters and Cement Masons Health Welfare Trust Fund (237347729)
2008 – Arizona Mexico Border Health Foundation (860536693)
2008 – Arizona Public Health Association (510198821)
2007 – Arizona School Based Health Care Council (869908047)
2007 – Arizona Valle Del Sol Association of Occupational Health Nurses (860589899)
2007 – Arizonans for Access To Health Care (201339809)
2007 – Arnold Keogh Health Foundation (200251176)
2008 – Atwood Health Foundation (860975231)
2007 – Banner Health (450233470)
2002 – Banner Health Arizona (860957500)
2007 – Banner Health Foundation (942545356)
2007 – Banner Health System Group Return (900054273)
2007 – Behavioral Health Coalition of Southern Arizona Inc (860858075)
2008 – Behavioral Health Consumers in Action in Dba North Phoenix Visions of Hope Center (860981209)
2002 – Belle Fourche Health Care Center (460428064)
2007 – Birth and Womens Health Center Inc (860839469)
2008 – Canyonlands Community Health Care (860350153)
2007 – Capstone Health Plan Inc (860444142)
2007 – Carondelet Health Network (860455920)
2002 – Catalina Family Health Services Inc (860362118)
2007 – Cathedral Health Services (861023074)
2007 – Childhood Diabetes Research Institute Diabetes Health and Research Ins (860963786)
2008 – Chiricahua Community Health Centers Inc (860814898)
2004 – CO Sales Health Benefit Trust (860838385)
2008 – Cochise Health Network (010569967)
2007 – Codac Behavioral Health Services of (237086112)
2008 – Community Behavioral Health Services Inc (860473221)
2002 – Comn Hosp Home Health Agency (500147308)
2008 – Compass Health Care Inc Dba Compass Behavioral Health Careinc (953280475)
2008 – Concerned Citizens for Community Health (953416943)
2007 – Copper Basin Community Health Care Foundation (860684167)
2006 – Copper Basin Community Health Care Foundation (860942342)
2007 – Covenant Health Network (364133330)
2002 – David M Dorsett Health Care Facility (460428063)
2008 – Dna Peoples Legal Services Inc Health Plan Trust (311491785)
2008 – Eastern Arizona Area Health (200218600)
2005 – Eden Center Adult Day Health Services Inc (860976629)
2007 – El Pueblo Health Center Inc (860276135)
2007 – El Rio Santa Cruz Neighborhood Health (860285857)
2002 – Eureka Health Care Center (460428057)
2007 – Flagstaff International Health and Education Fund (203407099)
2006 – Foundation for Health Research and Prevention (860371322)
2006 – Foundation for Health Research and Prevention (860371322)
2008 – Gila Bend Health and Emergency Medical Services Inc (237444690)
2008 – Greater Phoenix Association of Health Underwriters (860536747)
2007 – Havasu Community Health Foundation (201839858)
2007 – Health Care Trust of Sundt Corp (866139042)
2008 – Health Evaluation and Longevity Planning Foundation H E L P (860309342)
2007 – Health Industry Business Communications Council (363313052)
2008 – Health Is Wealth Foundation Inc (522165034)
2007 – Health Restoration International Ltd (870701647)
2008 – Health World of Scottsdale Ltd (860870332)
2002 – Hillcrest Medical Clinic Banner Health (450437171)
2007 – Hope Community Health Center (201526381)
2007 – Infant Toddler Mental Health Coalition of Arizona (860981892)
2005 – Inst for Behavioral Health Inc (203682234)
2005 – Institute for Health Professions Education Inc (860658005)
2007 – Institute for Mental Health Research (861030444)
2008 – Institute for Safety and Health Manageme (352202914)
2002 – Inter Tribal Health Care Center (860292175)
2007 – International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 0769 Health and Welfar (866056282)
2007 – International Health Partners Us Inc (204108237)
2007 – John C Lincoln Health Foundation (953320185)
2007 – John C Lincoln Health Network (860117301)
2007 – Laborers and Operating Engineers Utility Agreement Health and (860576428)
2005 – Laborers International Union of North America Liuna Indian Health Serv (753069021)
2007 – Las Fuentes Health Clinic of Guadalupe Inc (860830225)
2008 – Little Colorado Behavioral Health Center Inc (860250938)
2007 – Liuna Indian Health Svc NC (870758894)
2007 – Marana Health Center Foundation Inc (202990000)
2008 – Marana Health Center Inc (866053462)
2007 – Maricopa Health System Outreach Trng Research and Patient Welfare FO M (860777567)
2008 – Mariposa Community Health Center Inc (860524321)
2006 – Medicine Tree Natural Health Resource (562518697)
2005 – Mental Health Advocates Coalition of Arizona Inc (953424503)
2008 – Mental Health Association of Arizona (860129976)
2007 – Mental Health Guild Inc (860412022)
2008 – Mental Health Resources Inc (860277999)
2002 – Mersco Medical Rapid City Banner Health (450448250)
2002 – Mersco Medical Spearfish Banner Health (450448249)
2007 – Mogollon Health Alliance Inc (860147128)
2008 – Mohave Mental Health Clinic Inc (860214457)
2007 – Mountain Park Health Center (860498020)
2008 – Mountain Park Health Center Foundation (205241918)
2007 – Nanas Children Mental Health Foundation (861001583)
2007 – Native American Community Health Center Inc (942540194)
2008 – Navajo Family Health Resource Network (860286934)
2007 – Navajo Health Foundation Sage Memorial Hospital Inc Sage Memorial Hosp (237314364)
2006 – New Beginnings Health and Fitness Ministries Inc (050584011)
2008 – New Mexico Upcw Unions and Employers Health and Welfare Trust Fund (656012357)
2002 – Northern Arizona Family Health Plan Inc (942850210)
2007 – Northern Arizona Regional Behavioral Health Authority Inc (866037149)
2008 – Nutrition and Health Education Resources (860583430)
2007 – Operating Engineers 428 Health and Welfare Trust Fund Local Board of T (866025730)
2008 – Pantano Behavioral Health Services Inc (861027534)
2008 – Psa Behavioral Health Agency (860220306)
2007 – Regional Center for Border Health Inc (860561847)
2008 – Rio Salado Behavioral Health Systems Inc (860717396)
2008 – Rural Arizona Group Health Trust (721525749)
2007 – Sage Foundation for Health (861026436)
2003 – Salud Para Todos Health for All (860801477)
2007 – Scottsdale Memorial Health Services Company (942735859)
2007 – Sierra Vista Regional Health Center Inc (860186064)
2007 – Southeast Arizona Area Health Education Center Inc (860520996)
2007 – Southeastern Arizona Behavioral Health Services Inc (860325741)
2007 – Southern Arizona Association of Health Underwriters (900221772)
2008 – Southern Arizona Mental Health Corporation (860806975)
2008 – Southwest Behavioral Health Services Inc (860290033)
2007 – Southwest Catholic Health Network Corporation Mercy Care Plan (860527381)
2007 – Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine and Health Science Inc (860702049)
2007 – Southwest Health Professions Education Center Inc (860767024)
2005 – Southwest Preventive Health Fdn (743095396)
2005 – Southwest Preventive Health Fdn (743095396)
2008 – St Lukes Health Initiatives (860097240)
2002 – Sturgis Community Health Care Ctr (460428062)
2002 – Sturgis Health Care Center Ltc (460445589)
2007 – Sun Health Corporation (942745413)
2007 – Sun Health Foundation Inc Dibia Boswell Hospital Foundation (237107959)
2007 – Sun Health Properties Inc (942745411)
2007 – Sun Health Properties Leasing (860796948)
2007 – Sun Health Research Institute (860768795)
2008 – Sun Life Family Health Center Inc (860296211)
2007 – Sunset Community Health Center (860893305)
2007 – Superstition Mountain Mental Health Inc Smmhc Inc (860554593)
2007 – Touchstone Behavioral Health (860223116)
2008 – Town of Cottonwood Employee Health Benefit Trust Fund (866149544)
2008 – Triple R Behavioral Health Inc (860318272)
2007 – Tuba City Regional Health Care Corporation (043651340)
2007 – Tubac Health Care Foundation (860531821)
2008 – United Community Health Center Inc (942905416)
2007 – United Food Cw and Employers AZ Health and Welfare Trust (237244353)
2003 – University Physicians Health Maintenance Organization (860541442)
2002 – Villa Maria Health Care (450322127)
2004 – Villagelink Home Health Care Services Inc (860739096)
2007 – Winslow Indian Health Care Center Inc (810549382)
Ok, you people may not have been tactful, but I think that is an unjust characterization of hipparchia.
Get my drift.. Click on the year and you can see the $$$$$$$$$$ in the 990 tax forms……….
ABSURD!
Lest one wonder why nothing of urgency is being accomplished (okay, you already know the Republicans are robotic obstructionists), consider this:
I know, I know…They’ve gotten to everybody now, even our hero economist Nouriel Roubini. Look what he just said in a NYTimes Op-Ed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07…..ef=opinion
Why don’t these people listen to me, since I’ve got it all figured out?!?!?
The argument that fee-for-service incentivizes overtreatment is not precisely true.
The micro-managed cost-centered fee-for-service system that counts an X-Ray (plus indirect costs), an aspirin (plus indirect costs), a night at a hospital (plus indirect costs) is what is incentivizing overtreatment and the auditing and refusal of those costs increase the administrative costs for both insurers and providers, which then get applied back as indirect costs for providers and direct costs for insurers.
The question being debated is “What is the unit of service?” The implict assumption of critics of the review of costs is that reviewing costs will automatically translate in to arbitrary regulations setting maximum prices for various procedures. It need not. I might result in research into what best practices might lower costs and improve outcomes.
What has to stop is providers deciding what their income is to be and then billing accordingly.
What has to stop is the escalating management bureaucracy of “healthcare systems” in which the CEO make $1 million to $5 million in compensation for running a huge difficult-to-manage organization that neither improves effective healthcare nor lowers costs.
What has to stop is the fragmented billing of patients, in which the primary care physician submits a bill, the hospital submits a bill, each of the specialists involved submit a bill, and the patient has to negotiate payments with each of them and manage their finances to get those payments paid off.
Amen and amen.
James Joyce-AMEN!!! Word!!
It is certain that if Iraq Attack/Invasion/Occupation had been contested and resisted and debated only a third as much as this current American healthcare “reform” is seeing in Congress Americans would not be in Iraq.
Most interesting “new” this early Monday AM? Democratic Party cannot(yes-that is correct–cannot) pass any “reform” without Republicans letting them do so.
So–electing more Democrats to Congress brings us to this? So how many more Democrats are needed to create conditions where Democratic Party majority rule is simply that–rule by the majority party?
As for the so called “Blue Dogs” as noted already above Paul Krugman sees no logical explanation for what this bunch of clowns are doing or trying to do. So is President Obama going to dress them down in public and shame them in a very rigorous way or not? Or is President Obama going to let this clan of money politics open palm greasers provide him with political cover for doing too little or nothing at all?
President Obama should really start honoring what he said during his bid for the WH.
The Democratic Party ought to clean out the current “leadership teams” in Congress for base failures and ineptitude.
And could just ten Americans now in Congress please find some political courage and spine and just come out for Universal Single Payer and demand this be brought to the table and promoted for the only real solution it is? If getting USP takes another year so be it. Anything less is not going to move a real world solution into place.
Those who are telling lies and abusing facts and truths or are agents of misdirection in Congress or this Obama WH should suffer readily for having done so in regards to trying to sabotage and destroy any hope of American healthcare reform and positive changes.
Pitchforks and torches really are coming to the fore as means now required.
The insurance companies cannot make profitable what they already have:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c24…..abdc0.html
so they are resisting change? For what? Medical Insurance to the rich?
This “debate” about health care reform without a single payer option is a phamtom. There is no fixing the current system, as the CBO keeps pointing out.
And as TarhellDem point out @17, the reform has to include Doctors and Hospitals, as this New Yorker article points out:
http://www.newyorker.com/repor…..ct_gawande
There was no debate on Iraq Attack/Invasion/Occupation becuase there were no lobbyists opposing these wars.
Can you see who are the real masters of congress?
Yeah, that article about “Dems cannot…” yada yada only gives a slight approximation of the B.S. thats coming during the recess.
you get it?
bagnewsnotes dot com has a graphic up on the connection of five former staffers of Baucus (all now lobbyists) to industry/corporatist pay to players.
Roubini actually said that about Bernanke?
WTF?
Boy, that must be SOME kool-aid they gave him.
Bernanke who cant figure out WHO got the gazillions in TARP money?
Here’s a piece from ProPublica:
Bailout
Report: FDIC Bailout Will Save Banks $24 Billion
by Paul Kiel, ProPublica – July 27, 2009 8:10 am EDT
We keep you up to date on how many taxpayer billions have gone out to the nation’s banks (and insurance, credit card and auto companies) via the $700 billion TARP. But the Wall Street Journal ran the numbers on a separate federal bailout program, this one run by the FDIC, and found it will save eight big U.S. banks “about $24 billion in borrowing costs during the next three years.”
Of course, the program was launched to save banks billions—or put another way, it was designed to make their debt affordable. Banks under the program (called the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program) issue debt guaranteed by the FDIC. Since the debt has government backing, the interest rate is lower than the market rate. And at the height of the financial crisis late last year, market rates were remarkably high. The Journal‘s analysis focused on the eight biggest participants in the program and is based on the difference between the FDIC-backed rate and the going market rate at the time the banks issued debt under the program.
As we reported last month, one company that has benefited from this program is General Electric. The Journal calculates that its savings “likely will reach $3.3 billion,” a total GE disputed. (A spokeswoman said it was “something much less,” but evidently didn’t provide an estimate.)
Other bailout links this morning:
Fed Trims Program for Loans to Banks (WSJ)
Loans by U.S. Banks Shrink (WSJ)
A Cliffhanger to See if a G.M. Turnaround Succeeds (NYT)
Citi Trader Presses for $100 Million Pay Package in 2009 (WSJ)
When Debtors Decide to Default (NYT)
Small Biz Loans May Cost Gov’t Billions (AP)
Fund to Let the Public Buy Assets in Distress (WSJ)
Mornin’ Scarecrow – thanks for the summary
all 7 of the so called “fiscal conservatives” currently obstructing in the House -
– voted a big fat yes on last month’s Supplemental (HR 2346) that provided $26B in bailouts for European banks
- wish to retain the F-22
- have yet to vote No on a single defense appropriation
did I mention their combined earmarks for the 111th total $240.3M, up from $155.6 in the 110th ?
I wonder how long before banks will be in the healthcare business-or at least a derivative thereof,like e-medical records.
GE Capital is already considered a predatory lender,according to Inner City Press.
I can see them getting contracts to collect medical bills-if they are not already doing so.
fyi – the latest Chief of Staff to leave his employ – Jim Messina, is now Deputy WH Chief of Staff
It’s a scandal.
How many public charities in healthcare????????????????????????????????
How many tax exempt corporations in healthcare??????????????
How often does a tax exempt corporations get auditied?????
Who sits on the boards of these Tax exempt public charities in healthcare lessening the burdens of govenment while individuals go bankrupt, people die and families in addition losing a loved one, have nothing left???
Tax exempt not for profit public charities should not be causing “”more”” pain and harm on Americans in return for tax exempt public charity status, than they arealdy do! Check ou the tax status of your healthcare insurance corporation!!! No perrenial subsidies here? As for for profit health insurace….. we need doctors and nurses not corporate gatekeepers protecting corporation’s bottom line at life’s exepense!
@31
James,you are a credit to your namesake.
Tax hijinks have been an issue with me for some time now.
Are you familiar with the Tax Justice Network?
SUPERLATIVE info,global,continuously updated info on tax avoidance and off shoring by MANY organizations-worldwide.
You won’t be disappointed ,I promise.
The Tax Justice Network promotes transparency in international finance and opposes secrecy. We support a level playing field on tax and we oppose loopholes …
http://www.taxjustice.net/ – Cached – Similar
About TJN
Contact us
Corruption and Offshore
Resources Newsletter
Magnitudes and Measurements
Activities
Co-operation, Competition on Tax
More results from taxjustice.net »
Those are good facts to have handy. thanks.
Yeah, it’s like trying to fight your way through that spider wed in Return of the King/Lord of the Rings. We’re all lying here, all wrapped up in the web, in a poison coma, but still arguing with each other.
Thanks for the Aetna profits link.
GE Financial used to be in the healthcare insurance business under the Genworth brand. GE spun off Genworth in 2006.
GE Healthcare Financial Services provides operating capital for healthcare providers. No evidence that they are yet in collections; probably not enough margin compared to equipment financing and operating capital.
“But much of the media continues to assume the Blue Dogs actually care about fiscal responsibility, even though the Dogs’ actual proposals would, as Krugman notes today, raise costs or undermine the reforms. Attention media: Paying more money to their local providers, raising public plan rates above Medicare levels and weakening the public plan’s ability to force private insurers to compete will raise costs, not lower them.”
And as Obama was willing to say in his health care speech
“take the profit margin out” I could see Insurance companies heads do a 360 when Obama spoke truth to power and greed. I bet there were wet spots on the chairs of the execs when the got up.
Obama also said the Insurance companies “have had record breaking profits while the American people are being hammered”
More truth to power.
Great post SC, and great comments and additional info from readers. Although I SURE hope we can haz more hope than the present picture paints for us.
I guess, as always, time will tell.
Thanks all. *wave*
@36
Thank you TarHeel,Dem.
I was not aware of that.
The vultures are ALWAYS the fattest where the carrion is the MOST plentiful.
When we start seeing the usual suspects begin to circle and gather…well,you get the picture.
GE Capital has been a negative for GE,but last year GE got multi million $$ contracts to rebuild Iraqi electrical grids,along with Siemens.
And China is a multibillion revenue producer for GE…but you probably knew that already.
::rolleyes::
orszag is in favor of comparative effectiveness research, and so am i. orszag thinks it will save us money. i, otoh, am in favor of finding out what saves lives, and debating the price tag should be a separate issue.
one of the problems with comparative effectiveness research is that we may well find out that yes, the pricier options are better after all. on top of that, the research itself ain’t cheap, and ideally should take years, since not all effects of health interventions are immediately apparent.
the cbo scoring this [and many other ‘progressive’ ‘reform’ proposals] conservatively over the next 10 years is justified, and that’s exactly what they’ve done. the fact that backers of a particular bill in congress want it to be different isn’t going to make it so. wasn’t it just a few months ago that progressives were howling about baucus’ asking cbo to become more creative in their scoring so that his bill would cost less? shoe, meet other foot.
probably it just identifies me as being from a different part of the country than you.
you’re a sweetheart. thanks. the problem is that while my diction may be similar to that of my very conservative friends and neighbors, my thinking is not. hard to tell them apart though if someone is unwilling to question their own assumptions. [and yes, i wasn’t being exactly tactful either]
Yes, I agree different people have used the CBO scores when it suited them. The question is how much credence we should give to any of the scores when costs seem to be easier to score and possible savings less so. One of the CBO critics is cited in the update.
nouriel! you sellout, you!
seriously dude…
[1] the cbo scores everything conservatively, why is anybody surprised?
[2] both orszag and elmendorf are on record as supporting all the major dem proposals for reform.
[3] it doesn’t take a rocket scientist [or maybe it does] to read cbo’s letters to various congresscritters on why they score things the way they do and what changes can be made in the proposed legislation to get a more favorable score.
how do all those other countries get superb health care for so much less money than we do? price controls, baby! for all practical purposes, they tell the insurance companies [if they have them], the doctors, the hospitals, the drug companies, etc what to charge. all this other stuff is lovely to have, but it’s just icing on the cake.
thanks for pointing me to the update.
maggie mahar wrote a terrific book, money-driven medicine, and i can recommend reading it. she’s also fairly liberal in her general outlook on policy issues. that said, i almost always disagree with her prescriptions for how to fix what’s wrong.
true, savings are harder to project, especially if you don’t really know if the proposal is going to do what you think it will do.
in contrast, both the costs and the savings from dumping the insurance companies and going to single payer are relatively easy to calculate. we’ve got data showing what’s been spent on insurance vs what’s been spent on treatment, and we’ve got a fair handle on how much it costs doctors and hospitals [in administrative costs] to deal with insurance companies. a conservative estimate is that we could, in the very first year, start saving money without doing anything else. all this other stuff might just add to those savings, but if some of it doesn’t, we’ll have extra $$ to spend that we’re not handing to the insurance companies.
the reported profit that insurance companies are taking out of the health care system looks small, but they’re introducing economic distortions [and have been for years] that are just incredible. as long as we leave them in as a centerpiece of the financing system, there’s no telling what additional distortions they’ll come up with in the wake of these proposed reforms.
and no, the proposed regulations on insurance are not anywhere near as strong as those in the european countries who allow private insurance a central spot in health care financing.
I’d agree we can make plausible estimates of the admin/profit/marketing savings on the insurance side between the two systems, though I’ve seen different estimates of what that is — is the Medicare admin only about 1 % or closer to 5 %?, e.g. We could at least estimate a range given these uncertainties. Even the lower estimates are worthwhile.
The CBO estimates we’re dealing with here, however, are not on the insurance side but on the provider side, where it’s not as easy to predict changes or outcomes. And I think that would be true for the “economic distortions” you suggest the insurance structure creates for providers in any system. I don’t assume there are any simple solutions to that, and I’m hearing different reactions even to whether the fee for service system is as large a culprit as feared. [I’ve asked Kirk Murphy to give a perspective, but he’s in moving and can’t get to it.] I simply don’t know, so I assume on some things we’re just going to have to try stuff that seems to make sense and see what happens.