Actually, I would a lot rather have cold hard facts be the impetus behind policy, and emotional truth grow from achievement from a long-suffering working class. just me, I guess.

Well, I guess that’s also the issue here, right? If facts were driving the policy, we’d have a public option at least. Same if emotion were. But we’ve got insider politics driving it.

True. I’ve been involved in writing legislation, it’s kinda personal with me.

Thank you so much for this. It is a moment of truth.

This is very well put. I resonate with the message you recount: “Respect, empower, and include” and “CHANGE,” and the emotional truth we heard when candidate Obama spoke of them.

For me, that emotional sense of betrayal came when I heard about Obama’s backroom deal with the drug companies. That was when I started to feel disrespected, marginalized and excluded. Used and tricked by just another cynical politician.

What I’ve seen since has reinforced my disillusionment. Yes, the President’s speech will be a watershed. If it is a strongly progressive speech, and he shows vision and leadership — and backs it up with concrete action — he will certainly win back my support.

But I doubt I will take anything he says at face value again.

If he gives up the Public Option, I think the headline in some form or another across progressive blogs and journals everywhere will be a grappling with: “HOW WE GOT DUPED.”

And the writer is right on point. It will more than make millions of us disillusioned. It will make us cynical. And the world will know about it. It will be “the disillusionment heard ’round the world.”

The president’s BASE WILL COLLAPSE, and cynicism and disillusionment will haunt him from his base as the emboldened radicalized Republican congressional minorities obstruct and gut the president’s every initiative in his remaining few years in office.

Truly, it’s Public Option… or bust.

And 2012 will be worse than 1968 and 1980 all over again.

Thanks, Marta, wonderful post. Thanks for writing it.

Remember Christine Cegalis. I felt betrayed as soon as Rahm was appointed CoS!

yay HMOs!

Agree with most of what you said.

Do you think getting rid of Rahm would make a difference? I don’t believe that Rahm cares about issues. I once believed that Obama did, and I’d still like to believe he thinks he has to govern this way….but not sure I do believe that any more.

I’m always optimistic, but my optimism has been sorely tested over these past few months. What does Obama stand for? Where is his backbone? I always knew he wasn’t as liberal as I’d like, but I thought his majorities in Congress would free him to do the very best things. But no, he let himself be punked by jokers like Grassley and tried to work with people who have absolutely no respect for him.

I took my Obama bumper sticker off today. If he finds a backbone I might put it back on but I sadly don’t think that will happen. I so wanted to believe that wonderful things would happen because they could.

If Obama abandons progressives, would it be time to start the wheels in motion for a new progressive party?

People all over the country worked and walked, called and wrote, and worked for the victory that Obama has. We believed him and his campaign promises. If he lets us all down on Wednesday, there will be a new dawn of political representation.

People everywhere will in fact become more cynical of the status quo politicians. I hope that both republicans and democrats are keeping their eyes open. Representing America is no longer political.

No, Rahm works for Obama. And Obama does have a spine – but what will he use his spine for?

The Public Option IS the compromise.

If Obama does what’s right and Rahm doesn’t like it, then Rahm can return to Congress or to his multi-million dollar banking job.

Unlike the last president, this president is capable of calling his own shots, and he’s nobody’s puppet. So I don’t hesitate to hold him personally accountable despite who may be around him.

No. No new party. We need a better and more progressive Democratic party. If you look at Republicans in the 50’s and 60’s, you see what today would be called “liberals.”

A country this rich and powerful cannot handle more than 2 parties in the end. Our goal should not be purity but to strengthen the progressive faction within the Democratic party the way the Republicans have strengthened their lunatic fringe. If progressive adults win out, we do the right thing and we crush all opposition.

But SOME people still have their heads up the Clinton 90’s.

i think sam smith records the record so much better than the purported progressives…..

WHY LIBERALS MISREAD OBAMA

Sam Smith, Progressive Review – During the campaign the Review pointed out a number of uncomfortable facts about Barack Obama, including that he:

Aggressively opposed impeachment action against Bush

Had argued that conservatives and Bill Clinton were right to destroy social welfare,

Supported making it harder to file class action suits in state courts

Voted for a business-friendly “tort reform” bill

Voted against a 30% interest rate cap on credit cards

Had the most number of foreign lobbyist contributors in the primaries

Was even more popular with Pentagon contractors than McCain

Was the most popular of the candidates with K Street lobbyists

Was named in 2003 by the rightwing Democratic Leadership Council named Obama as one of its “100 to Watch.” After he was criticized in the black media, Obama disassociated himself with the DLC. But his major economic advisor, Austan Goolsbee, was still the chief economist of the conservative organization. Wrote Doug Henwood, “Goolsbee has written gushingly about Milton Friedman and denounced the idea of a moratorium on mortgage foreclosures.”

Supported the war on drugs

Supported the crack-cocaine sentence disparity

Supported Real ID

Supported the PATRIOT Act

Supported the death penalty

Opposed lowering the drinking age to 18

Went to Connecticut to support Joe Lieberman in the primary against Ned Lamont

Lent his support, as Paul Street of Z Mag noted, ” to the aptly named Hamilton Project, formed by corporate-neoliberal Citigroup chair Robert Rubin and other Wall Street Democrats to counter populist rebellion against corporatist tendencies within the Democratic Party. . . Obama was recently hailed as a Hamiltonian believer in limited government and free trade by Republican New York Times columnist David Brooks.”

Endorsed US involvement in the failed drug war in Colombia.

Voted for a nuclear energy bill that included money for bunker buster bombs and full funding for Yucca Mountain.

Came in at 48th in the ranking of senators by the League of Conservation Voters

Supported federally funded ethanol and was unusually close to the ethanol industry.

Promised to double funding for private charter schools, part of a national effort to undermine public education.

Supported the No Child Left Behind Act

Favored expanding the war in Afghanistan

Supported Israeli aggression and apartheid.

Favored turning over Jerusalem to Israel

Wouldn’t rule out first strike nuclear attack on Iran

Called Pakistan “the right battlefield … in the war on terrorism.” Threatened to invade Pakistan

Opposed gay marriage

Opposed single payer healthcare

Supported restricting damage awards in medical malpractice suits

Favored healthcare individual mandates that would help insurance companies and banks but not citizens

Wanted to expand the size of the military.

Wouldn’t have photo taken with San Francisco mayor because he was afraid it would seem that he supported gay marriage

Dissed Ralph Nader for daring to run for president again

Called the late Paul Wellstone “something of a gadfly”

Was ranked 24th in the Senate by Progressive Punch

Said “everything is on the table” with Social Security.

That’s 38 reasons for starters why liberals might have been uncomfortable with Obama. Instead they treated him as if he had descended from heaven and heavily chastised those who failed to join their crusade.

Some of this was to be expected; for example, history and ethnic solidarity made black support unsurprising.

But even with Bill Clinton white liberal arguments on his behalf still had the tone of slightly embarrassed justification. With Obama there was nothing but idolatry.

Now, with a rapidity that surprised even this cynic, liberals are feeling uncomfortable with, and some even mad at, their instant hero. What went wrong?

Here are a few hypotheses:

- With the Clinton election, liberalism shifted from being an ideology to being more a combination of faith and socio-economic demographic that sought identity through favored icons rather than by preferred policies.

- The dominant white portion of the demographic found in Obama a black with whom they could identify – a handsome, well-spoken Harvard Law School graduate with none of the anger or aggressiveness of someone like Jesse Jackson. Obama was the black they had been waiting for: safe, suave, and soft spoken. They didn’t notice that ethnically Obama was actually only half black and in politics he was all white.

- Many of the traditional liberal causes were now considered radical and lacking in support. Economic issues have nearly disappeared from liberalism, while supporting civil rights or opposing wars are considered just part of history. Constitutional rights are left to a small subset or to libertarians.

- With the media’s help, liberals have learned to regard politics as a game rather than a cause. Pursuing a policy was the work of the naive; power is the goal, and it is assumed that once it is attained, the policies will take care of themselves.

The irony is that liberals didn’t even learn anything from their successful opponents. The right had reduced politics to a few issues, which though logically were of minor importance, had become powerful- if false – symbols of righteousness. On not one issue over the past two decades, have liberals even come close to raising serious hell.

So now some liberals are beginning to notice that they have been conned again. But not much will likely occur as a result, So if anyone feels like starting a new movement – one that centers on doing the most for the most – it wouldn’t be a bad time. Aside from a bunch of griping conservatives and grumpy liberals not much else is happening.

This is a beautiful post that says what’s at stake. It is already so sad that we have to be wondering. I am not sure why it (the promise, hope, optimism) has all gone awry. It’s a clear as Bill Moyers on Friday…Obama made the promise for PO/insurance reform. Go get it.

I tend to react the same way – give me the facts, figures, data, etc. Give me various analyses if this is an area in which I’m not well-versed. And then I’ll figure it out.

But, and here’s the thing we all need to learn yesterday – we are not the norm on this. It’s all about emotion and painting pictures as the author states. We the mathematicians/analysts/seriously-left(?)-brain folks forget or disdain this at our peril.

“Death panels” are a perfect example – that whole (*$^ stupid issue is really, rationally about whether or not there should be a billing code. Ok, but think mental pictures – “Death panel” is technicolor and “billing code” is, well, not. But if there had been a compelling counter-picture presented – the wise elder setting his/her affairs in order for a grateful family – complete with snappy catchphrase – then we’d not be fighting histrionics with accounting.

Makes me crazy, truly, that facts and analysis don’t win out. But I grew up with a bunch of creative writers running loose around my little math-geek self, so I learned the hard way that if a picture is worth 1000 words, it’s probably worth about 86,325 data points.

I regularly read here, but never commented before, which may be a small indication of how this post hit me.

I didn’t work like Marta did, but I feel as though I’ve given my time and hard-earned dollars to what seems more each day like a lost cause, at best.

I now better understand what I perceived to be a post-election leadership void. Sure, I’ve been angry as one can be over President Obama reneging at what seemed like every turn, which I attributed to the Great Bait and Switch. But HCR reform has been different. I summed HCR up as two parts lack of leadership accompanied by one part “just another politician.” But thanks to Marta, I know it’s not that at all, and it’s good to have an explanation for it.

Thanks Marta.

Just to note that O didn’t fool all progressives. Some on this site pointed out the problems from the getgo.

A promise kept or a promise broken?

If you have to ask, then you already have your answer. It isn’t about what Obama may do. It is about what he hasn’t done to date. There are a thousand things he could have done to show his solidarity with those who got him elected, and quite simply he has doesn’t done any of them. As it stands now there will be no public option or one only if it is completely hollowed out. That is Obama’s position. The only real question that is left is whether House progressives have it in them to kill a bad bill. I don’t think they do but I’m willing to wait and see. The possibility of getting a salvageable bill at this time, however, is zero.

“Our goal should not be purity but to strengthen the progressive faction within the Democratic party the way the Republicans have strengthened their lunatic fringe”

I’ve heard that before. Forty years or so ago. You can see how that has worked out for us!

…emotional truth and actual truth will collide.

Great diary. Great diary.

While I was in briefly earlier today, I caught a 1996 snippet on cspan2. It was Brian Lamb interviewing Broder (I think) on a book he’d published about how congress works. He said that Gringich told him, that before Clinton was even the nominee, the Rs decided that if the Ds got into power, they’d do medical care reform, and that the Rs had to fight it to to death, otherwise the Ds would be able to create another large group of voter beneficiaries that would stick with them for a long time, with dire consequences for the Rs. Gotta hand it to Gringrich to get that one right, and to act on it.

Meanwhile lobbyists have become much more important to the Ds than voters, so f*ck the voters.

Im glad the “emotional truth” expresssed by the Obama campaign moved many people who had previously been blind to the truth of a disintgrating middle class, and a working class being shoved back down into wage slavery.
those are some of the truths that are all around us. it takes more effort to ignore them than not. My “hope” now is that, having seen the truth, those millions who want change wont forget them,go home and quit.I think the Obama campaign released something its having a hard time getting back in the bottle, and i DESPARATELY hope that dosent change.

I’d say he didn’t fool most progressives. Neither did Hillary or earlier Dodds, Edwards and any other D candidate save Kucinich. We knew there was trouble in paradise and he’d been paid for by the time of the FISA Act Amendment was passed with Obama voting for cloture contrary to his Wisconsin pledge. And most of us probably had some inkling he wasn’t the shiznit before then.

What Obama did was provide an electable alternative. Hillary may have been electable too… there’s little point in arguing whether we’d be better off now had she been able to generate the volunteer energy Obama was capable of harnessing and won the Democratic nomination.

in 2012 Obama will definitely need us for re-election. He’s got to stop disrespecting us and I hope Wendesday’s address to Congress gives props where due.

I can make you angry, sad, or laugh – depending on how I manipulate those elements.

My point is this: Republicans understand – have always understood – this very, very well.

Jesus – they’re all lawyers?

Marta has it right. It’s become a matter of emotional truth and the truth does matter. At this point anything less than full support for the public option means that meaningful reform has been bargained away. I’d rather see our President fight and lose than cave in.

A compromise on the public option would validate the opposition’s strategy of misinformation, lying and disruption. We can be sure that the health insurance companies will continue holding a higher regard for profits than health care.

Worst of all the sentiments in Congress have reached a crescendo. The House won’t pass a Bill without the public option. The Senate won’t pass a Bill with the public option. Democrats don’t even seem to agree on a set of reforms if it comes to reconciliation.

All this cannot be remedied in a single speech, which is why Obama needs to stick to the public option as the single most important element of reform.

Very simple: No guts, no glory.

It’s all Obama’s fault. ALL Obama’s fault. OK, now that we’ve established that it’s all Obama’s fault, let’s lay out the problem and see how people who demand the public option can find a better solution than Obama.

(1) Let’s try the reconciliation. Oh wait, that doesn’t work. To quote Former Democratic Chief of Staff of the Senate Committee on Finance and blogger at the Huffington Post Lawrence O’Donnell:

“Reconciliation requires 50 votes plus the Vice President for final passage only. During the process of reconciliation on the Senate floor there are countless votes that require 60 votes because it requires you to waive the rules of reconciliation – that’s done constantly in every single reconciliation process that goes to the Senate floor. They can’t think about going to the Senate floor without 60 votes whether they’re doing it in reconciliation or outside of reconciliation.”

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#32696599

Time Index on Video 3:30

(2) OK, can’t use reconciliation. Well then Obama should just stop holding back the 60 senators who are eager to create the public option. Oh wait, I just read something. There are only 45 senators who want the public option and Democratic Senators Landrieu, Pryor, Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln (and probably Conrad) all oppose the public option. So, at best, we are still 6 shy of 60.

(3) Alright, well we’ll pressure the Democratic Senators who oppose the public option. Oh wait, Arkansas has two Democratic senators Pryor and Lincoln. Lincoln has a net -8% approval rating and the public option is opposed by 60% of the people of Arkansas. We can no more convince her or others like her to vote for the public option anymore than we can convince her to resign from office.

http://www.publicpolicypolling…..AR_825.pdf

http://publicpolicypolling.blo…..h-gop.html

OK, so we need 60 votes to get the public option and there’s nothing any President could do in this situation to get the 60 votes. There’s nothing anybody who was President could do to get the public option, but uhhh…since Obama can’t get it done he’s a sellout!

Thanks, AP. Hope you will comment more.

What the hell is wrong with this guy, Barack Obama, when we who fought so hard to get him elected have to to fight even harder to get him to be on our side now that he is the President?

My prediction? Obama won’t take a position at all Wednesday night; he’ll continue to try to appease everyone and continue to try to have it both ways.

OT
Jane,
were you able to listen to the Anna Eshoo audio I emailed? I’m up for trying to increase the gain while ripping it to whatever format is best for you.

I guess I look at this a bit differently. I’m not really emotionally attached to this president. I did work, however, work in the campaign for election of the woman who is now his Secretary of State, so I do want to see him succeed. This being said, I believe he stands for and has always stood for and has always said that he’s stood for Centrism, as opposed to the core principles of the liberal Democratic Party.

I do believe that we urgently need a healthcare solution – as the single biggest crisis we now face as a country – and that the only politically palatable solution that might have a chance of working is the one on the table – the strong public option. These are facts, and transcend political parties. So on Tuesday, I’m going to be looking for the president to clearly communicate his understanding that this is a crisis, and that he needs to set aside politics to get this deal done, whatever it takes and regardless of his political views, which I freely admit are not my own. I will be disappointed if he tells us that politics has won and that, as a result, he is incapable of solving the crisis that confronts us. It’s about what he can do, not what he says or does say he stands for.

One question, please: How did we get here in the first place?
OK, two questions:
Where does the buck stop?

thats exactly what the brave annymous leakers at the white house are letting on to. i read that he plans to “reach out” to republicans (oh jesus) and let “his supporters” know that the WH isnt trying to “poke a stick in our eyes” thats “not how the president thinks” and “triangulation” has nothing to do with it! i caouldnt make this up, and it sounds just like him, so, im guessing its true.

It’s time for Obama to honor the promise of his campaign or face the loss of the base who put him into office. There is no compromise on a public option in healthcare reform. One that is available immediately and nationwide to anyone who wants it. One that is modeled on Medicare and allows the government to negotiate freely with all suppliers.

Since taking office, Progressives have been told to “stand down”, “keep your powder dry” and basically to “fuck off while we cut backroom deals that don’t include you”. Enough. I didn’t vote for bipartisanship and Republican principles in the last election, I voted for real change that moves this country into the 21st century. If Obama can’t/won’t provide it, it’s time for Progressives to abandon him and begin planning for 2010 and 2012.

If the Democratic Party is nothing more than a pack of closet Republicans, it will be no great loss to tear them apart and leave the remnants to Rahm and the Blue Dogs. I totally support the idea of a new political party to challenge both corporate brands. The Republicans will continue their descent into batshit insanity and eventually go the way of the Whigs in the 1850s. The Democrats can become as publically conservative as they like; no need to hide anything anymore. And Progressives can finally vote for candidates who are not ashamed to represent the people who sent them to office to do the country’s work. Can’t happen soon enough.

It’s all in Obama’s hands. Either he delivers or it’s time to kick him to the curb. If this bothers you, consider the alternative. Do you really think that letting Rahm turn healthcare reform into an insurance industry windfall is the path to having the Progressive movement taken seriously? Get real. This is Obama’s do-or-die moment and he knows it. Be interesting to see which way he goes.

Thats how Obama tells it yeah, ive heard another version of that story though. One where this was all worked out between the WH, a handfull of conservative senators and insurance insustry lobbyists, MONTHS ago. One where the public option was never REALLY AN OPTION, but a bargaining chip he used to get US on board. they never meant for it to go down this way, those damned inter – tubes!

I meant to reply to RFKUS..

Marta,

Thank you so much for your contribution. Your actions and words are honest and accurate. We have a broken system with good people like you trying to make it work. Many good insights here re what to do about this. I waver daily between giving up and going forward.

I’ve raised two sons to adulthood w/out health insurance. Wow. What a complex, screwed up dance.

A watered down BS bill needs to be shot down.

I think facts and figures have very little to do with it. The opposition has struck a very real chord heightened with the emotion of fear and, thus far, it’s working rather well for them. Iraq, Afghanistan, health care, I’m not terribly encouraged about promises kept.

Mr. President, dump this centrist nonsense and BE the change you promised.

We so often lose sight of the fact that the emotional truth of genuine reform is deeply entwined with the policy wonkery. Murder by spreadsheet is the order of the day, so offering a path out of that is a deeply emotional, moral challenge.

But we also have the politics. We need ten progressive Senators to join their Progressive House colleagues and declare that they are voting against any bill with a mandate if it lacks a strong public option.

Otherwise we are simply taking one more step down toward corporate cronyism and theft of our government from its rightful owners.

Where does the buck stop?

In someone else’s pocket.

If Obama punts on the PO, we’re talking full-fledged tragedy. Proof positive that we elected a man who is merely a skilled campaigner – other than that, just another empty suit.

No Change, and nothing to believe in. Better to totally throw down – Public Option or veto, and lose with dignity, than to roll over like a spineless Rahm political puppet.

For some reason, I’m still holding out hope that he will stand up Wednesday.

It will be interesting, particularly if the White House is convinced beyond any doubt that House Progressives will hold together.

Elliott has town Hall Roundup, upstairs!
Online Health Care Townhalls Sunday at FDL: Ohio Democratic Senate Candidates

I have changed since 2002. Back then, after I figured out there were no WMD in Iraq, I kept thinking (since the truth was so easy to know) that one day they would surely wake up and call off the war. I was beside myself.

Fast forward to 2009. It is clear that O will do nothing to advance any improvement in the U.S. medical system. So be it.

After I see what, if anything gets passed, I’ll move on to try to figure out how bad it is and when the negative consequences will bite.

but are you sure that’s what he promised? Because my recollection is that he promised change to a centrist, post-partisan America.. change away from two parties, and from both liberal and conservative ideals, to a new middle ground. Which is precisely why I campaigned against the guy until the end of the primaries, and then reluctantly voted for him after he got the nomination because McCain would’ve been worse. I think some progressives read something into his use of the word “change” that just wasn’t there.

This being said, this isn’t about “change”.. this is about doing the right thing.. doing what he knows needs to be done – which is urgent and effectiv healthcare reform. He needs to come out in favor of the only solution on the table that has a chance to work (the Public Option), or he’ll simply convince people like me that he lacks what it takes to lead. Until then, I’m willing to think of him as a good president.

I wish someone would put this piece in front of President Obama. He needs someone other than Rahm whispering in his ear.

It will be heard from around the world, a very large part of the 1.3 million Americans that live abroad voted for Obama.

If we can get a simple and it is SIMPLE its not complicated at all, Health Care Reform bill done, we’ll make the people that didn’t vote for it pay and pay dearly for it.

We won’t go running to the middle for an answer, we’ll go running to the far, far LEFT, which compared to the far, far right makes sense because they still are based in reality and not some shadow zone like most Right Wingers are.

I will move out of the country and not look back until the country rebounds to economic policy from the New Deal and Complete Health Care coverage started by Francis Perkins!

He was pretty specific about change to more transparent government – his campaign rhetoric on Medicare Part D not having negotiated pharmaceutical prices was spot on.

His actions in letting Pharma set their price for support in secret meetings isn’t what he promised by a long shot.

This is a great post!

I was going to go to Denver Drinking Liberally next Wednesday night, until I found out that there was going to be a joint session speech.

I decided to stay home, and watch it, rather than be trying to make new relationships, as I had come to the very same emotional conclusion; this speech is going to cut it, and the right way, or not.

I’ll figure out what to do personally from there.

The Drinking Liberal get-togethers ought to be either smooth sailing, or a bit fractious after the speech, I’m thinking.

Take an umbrella. It’ll be Gallagheresque either way.

I would like to share what it feels like to be covered by single payer health care. I am 67, covered by Medicare, my income is so low they will pay my premiums, I am also a vet so the VA covers me. I, for years, could not get insurance because of a pre-existing illness and have over the years had many medical bills go to collection and my credit ruined.
It is such a great relief to know that I can now go to the doctor when I need to and not feel shamed by my inability to pay or, my hesitation to see a doctor when something is wrong knowing I need the money to do something else like eat, or pay rent, or go to the movies, or anything else you can name.
And this is the way it should be for all of us, This is a watershed moment and if Obama does not deliver a speech that unequivocally demands a public option that has gravitas at the very least, I will be terribly disappointed and will have been betrayed and nothing feels worse than trust betrayed.

I notice you asking one question, but what about providing one solution? Can we agree that the best deal ANY PRESIDENT can get right now is some kind of compromise with Olympia Snowe (and by extension a deal with the Blue Dogs and maybe Susan Collins)?

Well, funny thing but I always thought the presidency required actual Leadership. I guess you don’t think so.

Like I said, OK, maintain that Obama is evil, pure freaking evil. A guy who is bought and sold by the insurance industry and conservatives. Now that we have established that Obama is a pawn for insurance industry and perhaps an evil alien from Mars, now let’s return to the question: how do you get a better plan than the President’s?

Again, you can think that I don’t think the Presidency requires Leadership, Honesty, Courage, Intelligence, or Rationality. Again, propose a plan to get a better deal than the President’s plan.

We just need to make it clear to every Blue Dog and Obama that without REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM we will not support their re-election. There is NO WAY a Blue Dog or Obama gets re-elected without us and we are not about to be taken for granted. No REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM, don’t expect to get re-elected in 2010 or 2012 or 2014!!! BELIEVE IT!!!!

Obama address to Congress drinking game anyone?

Take a drink whenever he says Bipartisan, bend cost curve…

HELL!!! NO!!!!!

BTW Obama doesn’t have a plan.

I wish someone would put this piece in front of President Obama. He needs someone other than Rahm whispering in his ear.

In the era of the internet, Obama’s isolation is self-imposed. A few keystrokes is the only thing standing between himself and the voices debating the issues in the country.

You say we should not blame Obama. Fine
I blame Joe Lieberman, because no Democrat worth his salt ever lost ground by blaming him.

Seriously – setting aside that the PO is by every definition except in Obama’s cabinet, a compromise, and that letting the issue drift in leisurely fashion through committees manned by Republicans who only the comatose imagine would give one inch, and by exponentially underestimating the PR approach…
This is not Iraq, this is not Manhattan on September Eleventh, and this is not New Orleans – THIS IS on Obama’s watch, and it was botched in epic splendor.

how do you get a better plan than the President’s?

This is an incredibly dishonest question. Hello, we don’t have the powers of office that Obama has. So the question is meaningless. The question should have been what Obama could have done given the great powers of his office. He could have gone to the country with a simple plan that everybody could understand like Medicare for All. He could have asked the public for mass action to show members of Congress that he and we were serious. And then he could have watched as members of Congress wet themselves to be first in line in support of the President’s plan. But gee, that would have taken leadership and not being in the bag for the insurance industry.

true. I’ll agree with that. Not quite the great betrayal of the century perhaps but clearly one important promise broken.

I’m not disagreeing with the frustration. Some of it is well-founded. I’m just upset that some here have taken to comparing him to the likes of Bush and Palin. shrub is a traitor and a criminal. Palin’s a seditious idiot. Obama is merely at risk of becoming yet another mediocre president…. one of many. Being an average president doesn’t make him a monster. Now let’s wait to see what he has to say on Tuesday shall we?

TBogg is upstairs!
The Greatest Generation did not defeat Hitler so that we
would end up with a black one of our own. And butt sex.

What you said!

Yes

They blow this they lose now, and they lose in the future..if they don’t see that then I will trade my high school diploma for two B.a.’s and a doctorate from Harvard ’cause my edumacation must be the tits. Rahn’s drive for campaign contributions is fine, but if they can’t get votes they are fucked, and they will lose.

He’s not a monster. He’s the man we elected. If he’s a mediocre president it means we have a lot of work to continue – but then who among us thought we’d be resting on our laurels once we elected him?

We’ve known since July 2008 at least that we were going to have to fight to keep him walking the walk on some of the more progressive parts of his agenda, especially his agenda during the primary season. I think we’ve got a shot on actually getting workable health care reforms, including public insurance with large enough pools of people. I’d prefer that to be done through a single national public option, there are too many ways to design regional co-operative plans that aren’t workable.

I think in the end, Obama is going to go with the “Screw The Struggling 70 Million Americans Who Voted For Me” option that he’s been planning all along. But let’s say by some miracle, decent health care reform does pass in spite of Obama’s apparent sabotage of REAL health care reform, and even if he happens to get a few good pieces of legislation passed over the next several years, I’m getting really suspicious about who this guy really is as far as being someone I can trust. This is important to me after 8 years of the most corrupt administration in my lifetime.

I’m talking about what Obama is revealing about himself by his own actions, and not by how he’s being defined by the corporate owned media and the nut jobs. A lot of people have been bending over backwards giving Obama the benefit of the doubt while I think they have been secretly scratching their heads about him too, but let’s be real here, this guy is really starting to smell. I think we’ve been had by a snake oil salesman with a million dollar smile.

You can say all politicians lie, but I’m not talking about the bullshit that all politicians spew. I’m talking about a deep seated deceptive character. He’s just not at all who he appeared to be during the campaign. It’s almost like, after having a whirlwind courtship and marrying the woman of your dreams, you wake up with a hangover only to find that you’ve married Glen Close from Fatal Attraction, or that your beautiful new bride has a penis (humor not intended).

I think we might have made a big mistake electing this guy. Even with a best case scenario, the Democratic House and Senate coming together and fighting as a team and actually passing a good, robust public option in spite of the White House and their back room deals, in the end, we’re still going to be stuck with a very charming and gifted liar, and basically a fraud that can’t be trusted, for our president for the next 3 years. This coming off of the disastrous and destructive 8 years of the Bush Administration, and I think I’m almost in a state of shock learning that our new President is just another immoral, self-serving, untrustworthy liar.

Another thing, No Drama Obama was a fallacy. The truth is, backing Obama is a never ending ride on the emotional roller coaster. You never really know where you stand with this guy; you never really know if he’s got your back or not, or if he’s even on your side or not. Sure, he’ll give a pretty speech and reassure you he’s fighting for you, but then his actions leave you feeling let down and often betrayed.

It was like this all during the campaign, too. Is it his style? Is he a Political Chess Grand Master who’s always 15 moves ahead of mere mortals? I don’t think so. I don’t think he’s really politically extraordinary at all, other than the fact that he is a pretty great orator. I’m not really sure what to think; the guy just plain confuses and frustrates the hell out of me.

I’ve been anxious over this health care fight since it started. A lot of us don’t have the goddamn privilege of having health care. But I’ll tell you, most of my anxiety, at least from my point of view, is caused by watching what at least appears to be so far, my president play political games with my best chance of being able to have access to health care, and not die prematurely from a disease that could have been cured or prevented, if only His Majesty wasn’t more concerned with trying to ensure his own reelection. If this President, or any president, is willing to sacrifice even one human being for his own personal ambitions, that to me is unforgivably immoral.

Even if real health care reform does manage to pass on this President’s watch (in spite of Obama’s back room deals), I’m not so sure I’m willing to ride the emotional roller coaster that is the Obama Presidency for another seven years. I don’t mind the ups and downs of the fight, but I do mind the ups and downs of always wondering if my team Captain is playing for my team.

No matter what good comes out of the Obama Presidency, I can never trust this guy again. Even if he does the right thing in the end on health care reform, he’s already shown that giving his word doesn’t mean anything; it’s just another tool at his disposal for advancing his own personal ambitions in life.

I think we might have made a big mistake electing this guy.

If you want to talk about primaries, have at it.
But driving this guy to the brink is a lot more appetizing than driving John McCain.

No one mistakes him for Progressive. We set out to make it expensive for him to desert us, and that’s what we must continue to do. If the House Progressives hold, Obama will have a lot to think about.

No.

Why did he fight to keep his Blackberry, if he can’t get any information that isn’t filtered by the bubble?

Well said. Obama has been signaling in every way he can that the only part of our back he has is the one he is going to stab. Progressives need to start thinking past Obama and the Democrats or we will just continue to enable them and make ourselves complicit in their failures.

newtonusr,

If the House Progressives hold, Obama will have a lot to think about.

I think Obama’s plan remains to peel off progressives as needed to get a bill passed and not think about this again at all.

No doubt.
I am not giving odds.

I’m just pointing out that Obama is only isolated if he wants to be. But even if he has a Blackberry, it sure doesn’t seem like he is tuning into the voices of his base.

Good post. Absolutely right. If Obama throws the public option under the bus, his presidency is really over. His base will collapse (it’s already shaky now), the GOP will be emboldened and hate him even more than they do now, and the independents will abandon him (like they are now) because he looks wishy washy and has no spine.

Obama’s constant licking of Grassley and Enzi’s boots is really horrible, considering the huge majorities he has. Maybe Obama is tired of being publicly humilated day in and day out, or maybe he’s enjoying it, and he’ll blame the liberals for making Grassley mad.

Charlie, I could not agree more with you and Ms. Evry. However, my great disappointment has been building since the moment he appointed Emanual as his Chief of Staff and then went on to Geithner and Summers; gave Volker a special pass to the Oval Office; got in bed with Goldman Sachs, Aig, Wall Street, and every other person and corporation that caused and continue to cause the destruction of our economy. Obama began his about face in January. He turned his back on his supporters and hasn’t once looked back. Transparency is non-existent in his administration (despite the recent “some visitors” will be made known malarkey), all the Bush policies have been maintained and the wars continue (and Afghanistan will soon escalate in Obama’s/Emanuel’s attempt to make him a “war president” who MUST be re-elected). Obama has done Clinton one better. Obama has adopted the triangulation of the Clinton Administration, but he is adding strangulation to the agenda–strangulation of the people as he lines the pockets of PhRMA and the insurance industry. He pattern has been clear. He bamboozled us. Actually, he lied to us and as Evry has pointed out, “We expected Change, we expected to be respected, empowered and included, we expected him to fight, and we expected to join him in that fight”. Well, look at his record thus far. As I see it, his moment of truth came months ago. I expect him to betray us and destroy the hope and trust we placed in him. On Wednesday, I expect Obama to confirm what I have come to think of him since his inauguration–a right leaning pol from Chicago who doesn’t give a damn about the people.

We have to be careful not to become too demoralized no matter what happens. If Obama sells us out, it just means that HE was not to be part of the change, not that change is no longer possible. If he lets the loonies or the corporations or both scare him into submission, we can’t. We have to keep looking for other bodies to take our message to Washington and make it into reality and just be more careful the next time. We’d still be in a lot worse shape if we had McCain/Palin so I refuse to consider my efforts wasted even if they didn’t produce the change I was thrilled to finally be able to believe in. I’m not giving up on that belief. We know how to organize and can organize around others if Obama lets us down.

I am sure Rahm has ambitions to get back into the House or maybe even the Senate and if he does, I’ll do everything I can from another state to defeat him. And Baucus and Conrad and so on. If we get govt by the corporation from what we’ve got, we need do all we can to get rid of them, even if it means more of those horrible ads pointing out how dirty fellow democrats are that piss Rahm off so much.

obombya is the reality of amerikan politics.

very few wanted to believe that he was the blackbush, just another creation of the rockefellers and the mossad.

the creation of a political system that has long been tweedledee versus tweedledum.

i am not a lapsed moralist. i try to refrain from supporting immorality, whether it is the posture of the left, or the right.

and more often than not, immorality is the posture of both of the political parties that govern amerika.

and barack obombya is just a negro immoralist.

has always been. as wayne madsen has asserted, he was an employee of the us intell services.

and as i have asserted, he has long been a courtier of the rockefeller family. like all the others[eisenhower, lbj, nixon, ford, carter, reagan, bush1, clinton, bush2].

but, of course, what choice was proferred? john mccain, a well-recognized reptillian gangster? or the stealth gangster, barack obombya?

we really couldn’t get anything other than a fraud, a gangster, could we?

that is the reality of the amerikan political system: NO REAL CHOICE!

and, if you don’t believe me, just ask the inhabitants of afghanistan.

This is leaked from ‘politico’ so consider the source…
The speech,
“2)He will not confront or scold the left. “This is a case for bold action, not a stick in the eye to our supporters,” said an official involved in speech preparation”

Why SHOULD the ‘left’ be confronted or scolded?

5) Obama will try to reassure the left about his commitment to a public option, or government insurance plan. Aides said they are rethinking what he will say about this. He wants to thread the needle of voicing support for a public option, without promising to kill health reform to get it.

Why he thinks he SHOULD reach out to a party that has shown absolutely no inclination to care about the proposal is mystifying. They want the President to ‘fail’. The republicans are a malignant one celled evil organism. Their ‘thought process’ is a monorail. They will not cast a single vote in favor of ANY proposal from this President.

I really underestimated the bile level in the opposition. John Harwood and Jonathon Alter both invoked the word ’stupid’ in describing the manipulated teabag lemmings pulling their kids out of school so they don’t git indoctrinated by the President.
I pretty much wrote off a good 25% of the voters who simply have a feral loathing for the President. I have come to think that is quite a bit higher than that.

Another hurtle is the media, they have conistantly been throwing ‘the left’ under the bus about this issue, banksters, and war crimes.

I had been thinking the President has been playing 3D chess, and August was a rope a dope, but if this leak is any indication, um, not so much. The fact he made calls yesterday to the progressives asking them how far they would give, and to remind them they are in safe districts and they had to help the blue dogs. After what has been shown, they are complete bought and paid for by big insurance. The President who preemptively made a deal with Pharma is asking this of the 84 progressives for the 13 blue dogs… it is bad math.
A speech isn’t going to change a single mind in the chamber.
If this thing is a giveaway to the insurance companies, shoot it down. If he wants to be a one term president he is doing it with out conviction.

This president has got the House on the public option side. If the House doesn’t do anything until the health care mess is worked out, there are farm bills and all kinds of things that recalcitrant senators want that just won’t get done. There are also all kinds of polls out there to persuade the conservadems that they will actually be better off in the elections if they vote for a public option. Between the WH and the House, there are tons of carrots and sticks that can be used to get things done, especially with majorities in both houses of Congress. If he wanted to get it done, it would get done.

Yes, Patri, I agree that the President set the pattern from January 20. But I was unwilling to believe what I saw with my own eyes, especially with Geithner, Bernanke and Summers. Obama, I thought, is much smarter than me and he’s a brilliant politician, and the next FDR besides — there has to be something going on that I just don’t see, to revive the economy besides throwing a few trillion dollars at Wall Street no questions asked.

I was confused about Guantanamo, torture and Afghanistan, too. I guess I’m in the slow group — it took until the PhRMA deal for me to realize the pretty stories were a fraud. Today’s address on his ridiculous phony retirement security policy indicates he’s not even bothering to put lipstick on his pigs any more.

I, too, expect nothing on Wednesday but weaseling and vague nonsense, leading ultimately to a big wet kiss to big insurance that further extends the criminalization of poverty into the middle class.

The cause of Senator Kennedy’s political life was affordable health care for all Americans. The cause of President Obama’s political life appears to be to preserve his standing with the Wall Street banksters (including insurance) he’s counting on to make him exceedingly wealthy when he leaves office in 2013.

Thanks Jane.

I’m truly sorry that people are feeling so betrayed. When Obama talked about inclusiveness and unity, it seemed clear to me that he was referring to conservatives and Republicans, as well as Dems and minor players like ourselves. I saw him as a self-described centrist conciliator in the campaign who sometimes sounded progressive and sometimes spouted right wing talking points – the same Obama that we see now. So I expected this, but I voted for him. I too wanted to believe in something better, and he is better than McCain – of that I have no doubt. I expected a few more goodies for us and not quite this much pandering to the corporations. I thought he was a brilliant politician, despite my disbelief in the post-partisan bit. I’m really more disappointed in the Party than in Obama. It’s become even more corporate than I realized.
But what’s good from my viewpoint is that the Left is now in rebellion against the Democratic Party’s drift to the Right, something we have needed for a very long time. There’s a lot of energy in our anger.

No Balls, no Re-election. Put it in terms Axelrod can take home in his triangulating little brain.

Wow – Rahmie Boy reads FDL?? Kewl!

Marta’s last words are poignant and prophetic:

“Either way, it will be our moment of truth.”

This really isn’t about Obama, it is about us. I don’t have nearly as much invested in this president as Marta, but her words encapsulated my feelings at least as well as I could describe them myself.

Obama will give his speech Wednesday, yes another speech, as Hiliary said, he has a speech. Whenever his back is to the wall he gives a speech. He will bow and curtsy to both sides and tell each of us we have to give something. This is what he does. He will do it again, believing his speech is so pretty, most of us will just follow along. And many of you will.

I already know what I will do, but it will still be my moment of truth. I will know if what I’m going to do is justified or will he somehow act completely outside the box. For me it won’t matter, because he is “not” the one. I only have two things that I can contribute, money and a vote. He will never receive either from me again.

everyone should go to dailykos and kid oakland we are writing personal letters to potus on healthcare and warning him on selling out. here is mine which has gotten much attn tonight:

9/6/09

President Obama,

My name is Art. I’m 29 and now am in poverty. Why? because my private insurance left me bankrupt. I got sick Mr. President. For getting Crohns disease my punishment, like those of millions, was bankruptcy.

The insurance companies throughout my ordeal were always one step ahead. Always. The deductibles and coinsurance added up so fast. I charged much on my credit card for other medical needs. I had no choice. My life has suffered much loss-I have a masters degree but cannot work in my field because of my illness. Worse, because I get disability now with a 660 dollar stipend, Medicare (thank the Lord), and food stamps- working would mean the loss of my Medicare. Having the Medicare is my lifeline.

Even if I could work again the same issues of private insurance with no govt acting as sheriff would emerge. If I worked in my profession making say 40 grand year, then paid premiums, co pays, coinsurance and more plus try and pay rent, food etc. it would be unfeasible with my costly medical problems.

So there must be, as you championed on the trail, a strong Medicare style public plan as an option for people. It would drive down the costs for everyone. It would give people an out if private insurance once again tries to not obey the rules. Humana, HMO Blue and the rest have to be checked in a way they have yet to be.

As president I count on you to protect us all from the whims of private industry . I expect you to finally get every American covered with real healthcare. No more games. No more rhetoric. You and your party were elected to bring real changes to a country that is in dire straights. Not bringing the universal healthcare plan into fruition would be a major blow to a nation beset by so many other economic and social problems.

As someone who worked for and voted for you I expect you to extend coverage to all Americans, provide a Medicare like public option to keep insurance honest and give real choices to those trapped in the for profit system, and enact the other promises you made as well. No one should have to be so harmed the way I have. For the future of this country I expect no less than what you and Democrats promised.

Yours truly,

—-

here is the emotional truth

we have elected another jimmy carter not a roosevelt

love the guy but will not vote for him again

he still thinks he is a jr senator from illinois

has not stepped up to the plate

another spineless demo controlled by lobbyists pretending to be for the american people

he sees another 700 million in donations in 2012

his chief of staff is selling him down the river

if he does not step up to the plate with speech and actions he will be another carter admin

stick a fork in us

“Whenever his back is to the wall he gives a speech. He will bow and curtsy to both sides and tell each of us we have to give something. This is what he does.”

Barack Obama has traveled a long way in life on his speaking skills, and ironically, those same skills are going to be his downfall. He just does not comprehend that he can’t manipulate public option advocates at will into accepting a tinker-around-the-edges fraud of a health care bill by giving us another one of his pretty speeches.

Well, he’s in for a big surprise. As Bushie would say, “Fool me once…shame on…shame on me…….Fool me twice ya can’t get fooled again!”

My first wife found a faith, found truth. No Scientific Method. No revisiting of hypotheses. Not on some things. A lie has equal value with a truth, and that’s dangerous, believe me.

Basically, [modnote: no fantasy violence], if they might repent in time to save their soul. Dick Cheney stuff, you betcha.

That having needed to be said. Politics is the art of the possible. There are so few as to approach zero defining moments for someone with so many balls in the air.

are we going to hear about the “fierce urgency of now,” or will president platitudes roll out some other corny lines to “inspire” us?

at this point, he’s a gutless chump until proven otherwise.

He activated the base. If he shuts us out, kicks us in the face, so to speak, the Democratic party is going to be so split and dispirited that there will be a lot of electoral losses. Especially in close races & swing districts.

May all the Blue Dogs lose. I am furious about the way the administration has handled health care reform. It shows a lack of vision, a lack of empathy for the suffering of Americans with inadequate or no insurance, and a lack of political acumen.

It’s absolutely appalling.

Blue Dogs. The Blue Dogs will lose if the public option is not included in health reform. Because people are going to be furious and a percentage of the Democratic base will either not show up in those districts or vote third party.

Everyone who’s saying this will be a watershed moment for Obama; maybe THE watershed moment, is right. If he caves on the public option, then all he
has left to salvage and prove his worth, are the economy and the two clusterfucks. And with Bush’s wars costing us that $3.5 billion and no end in sight, they are intertwined like mating rattlesnakes. Good luck with that.

MY emotional truth, which also happens to be the the REAL truth, is this black-humor irony:

The people who are working the hardest to try to protect Obama and his administration from the wingnuts; to counter the outrageous bullshit that they’re spreading; are the Rachel Maddows and the Keith Olberman’s, etc., and the good bloggers like Kos and Jane, and their brothers and sisters. We have been, and are, down in the trenches, grappling with the tinfoil hat Munich Bierhall putscher’s. I have seen no bluedogs covered with mud.

If, in his speech, Obama walks up to edge of the foxhole and takes a piss on our heads by giving in to the Health Insurance industry and Big Pharma on something that is clearly supported by 3/4’s of american voters, then
I’m at the point where I aint a-marching anymore, and I will sit back and watch, while the denouement of the twin shitmires kick in, and the republicans tear he and the democrats to pieces over it.

He has to start standing up to the monied interests. We voted for a leader, not a bush-lite. And at this point, the question of what is the difference between Obama and Bush? And the accusation that it’s very damn little, is valid.

DeanOr @84:

“There’s a lot of energy in our anger.”

There is, and I’m thinking about ordering some new bumper stickers:

“YEARRRGHHH! in 2012!!!”

your missing the point of this debate…

its not that its undoable….of which you are absolutley right

its how bad obama managed this debate.

i am a centrist mostly , yet understand how vital HC is to people’s lives.

obama in no way used his bully pulpit of the power of his office; neither corraled nor cornered nor bribed nor bullied any recalcitrant dem..ala LBJ..in any way , shape or form.

i am trying to find any democratic position he HAS fought for. FISA is a good example. can’t find his way to INVESTIGATE war crimes aka. enhanced interrogation. i think he has even capitulated on “give a hoot, don’t pollute”

and now he is escalating afghan.

either he doesn’t care..or doesn’t have the chops.

i think he doesn’t care.

in hindsight i think he was the worst of the 2 evils. shrillary was just to much…4 or 8 more years of bill.

but i think she would have gotten this done.

what are this guy’s motives, what are his abilities. and above all , what are his objectives.

its all in question now.

“It’s all in question, now.”

It is. I ask anyone to show me where, since he took office, he risked a good chunk of political capital to do the right thing; any of the right things he talked about in he campaigns.

His worst mistake, and it may mean the end of his chances for a second term, is that he just didn’t realize how strong of a mandate for change he had. He KNOWS what need fixing, and he SHOULD have know that the dead last thing the republicans were going to, was help him fix their fuckups.

Presto! One month in, “Bipartisanship” should have gone down the toilet.

If he had sent the good bills up to congress, and the republicans and a few conservative democrats defeated them (I don’t like calling them “bluedogs”…dogs are loyal…) the groundswell of anger at the GOP would have grown to Tsunami proportions.
Want to hear something wild? I think Obama didn’t even NEED to count votes in the Senate or House. He could have said: “Here’s what I want: if you guys oppose it, I’ll keep sending it up, all the way to the mid-terms.”

The republicans simply couldn’t have stood up to that. It would have ruined them. Rush Limbaugh’s head would have exploded, mid-rant. Now he’s smoking his cigar and watching Obama’s and the dems numbers tank. And they’re tanking with Obama bailing out the big corporations, “surging” in Afghanistan, and selling us out on a public option.

No matter how many hypocritical blowjobs or side-nookie episodes erupt from them, The republicans are nothing if not good at filling a moral vacuum with “Principles-for-idjits”, and right now, the one in the White House is like the world’s biggest Hoover.

joe trippi said something today which obama seems to ignore.

a successful HC reform would be equivalent to SS/Medicare/Medicaid

the signature democratic brand…

obama fails to recognize the enormity of the issue for 2 generations to come.

he doesn’t seem to understand this profoundlly.

he doesn’t think this worth fighting for with his all.

My comments at 53 might have been taken wrong, Some of you can’t get what I have, I am very fortunate, but that might be a bad choice of words, so, sorry, I was being insensitive.

Like a few of you, I have become somewhat (a lot), make that very disappointed. I see this as a win win if we have the compromise of a strong public option and nothing less. If they don’t their base will desert them, independents will desert them, don’t they see this? My answer would be they must, the question is do they care about us or some corporations bottom line. If it is the latter we are as a nation no longer populated with human beings, we have become data points, pwned and dissed, and living another 4 to 8 years with a sweet speaking con man who speaks with two tongues.

I was going to vote for Cynthia Mckinney, my daughter talked me out of it (darn women, I am like putty in their hands), because some of Obama’s votes were not even close to what I believe. I am now on the verge of complete meltdown, more worried now than during Bush’s term in office. We have a so-called Democrat in office, both the senate and congress in the majority, if they can’t pass a bill under these conditions the fix is in and it is all a tap dance on a pile of S%$#.

Thank you so much for the excellent post and story about your experience with the campaign. I expected Obama to run the country like he ran the campaign, even while being “everyone’s president.” I don’t underestimate the difficulty of this, but what he has done is the exact opposite. He’s gone so far down this road now it will be hard to come back even if he is inclined.

It’s clear now his signature style is appeasement of all opposition. But he ignores those who are on his side.

If the left is so demonized now that 70% polling is not enough to get a “leftist” policy voted out of Congress, everything good about America is just doomed. Doomed. It’s very sad.

Bottom line on health insurance reform: there is NO reform at the CENTER. So reform is incompatible with governing from the center. That’s where we find ourselves.

All you need to know about “emotional truth” can be summed up in one acronym:

FISA.

Back in July 2008, if I recall correctly.

That’s the second time that I’ve seen you dodge the subject of what the hardline liberal plan is for the public option. Again, why vote against the President’s plan (yes, he does have one, it’s no more excluding people with pre-existing conditions, subsidies for the poor to buy insurance, reducing co-pays, a public option trigger, and an employer mandate) when you are unable to produce a plan yourself?

No, you’re missing the point. Again, let’s agree that Obama is Osama bin Hitler. That’s a good catchall for anything you want to say about him, and let us return to the point.

How do you vote against the President’s plan when you can’t think of a better one? Isn’t that stupid? THAT is the point.

Let’s deal with the point, then we’ll come back and talk about how we “got here” (we can automatically blame Obama in the meantime).

Nah, Emanuel wouldn’t waste time on the likes of you. By the way, care to address the subject: how do you vote against the President’s plan to get reform past the Senate, or are were you more interested in joining the group whining?

The problem with the public option is that despite many hardline liberals thinking that we have this enormous and unprecedented ability to do what we want, the Democratic Party is a COALITION of liberals and centrists. At most there are 45 liberal senators (45 senatorial votes for the public option). So that’s 15 votes shy of breaking the filibuster. You need 100% compliance on a liberal bill that’s only sought after by liberals, when you have only 25% of the party who are ambivalent or opposed to this. To put it another way, even 1 senator in the party is enough to bring this down. What are the chances that you can find 1 senator of the 15 who have said no/maybe who will not break the filibuster? Pretty high.

Case and point: Joe Lieberman is enough to single-handedly stop the public option from being passed into law. So liberals and Obama are not in the position of total power that many angry liberals think they are. You have a coalition army that can only succeed when 100% of the coalition agrees and you’re 25% short of that. That’s huge.

By the way, I’ve heard it said sometimes that LBJ was able to basically bully congressmen into voting his way. I’d be interested if anyone could provide a single example of one congressmen who was bullied this way and him backing down and doing what LBJ wanted.

No, you’re just incredibly stupid. Hello, I was saying that if you were in Obama’s position how could you come up with a better plan? You are the one being dishonest by misrepresenting what I said so you can dodge the question.

Regardless of what you say Obama could have done, what can be done NOW? That is the question you are avoiding: what is the best legislation that can get through the Senate NOW?

I didn’t say don’t blame Obama. Blame Obama till you are blue in the face. Consider him Osama bin Hitler. Let’s stop avoiding the question:

Can you come up with better legislative strategy than the President which can pass the Senate? If not, does it make sense to oppose a legislative strategy which you cannot improve upon?

Thank you for describing everything about Obama that caused me to vote for Cynthia McKinney.

And for laying it all out clearly to the Obamalamadingdongs.

“I’d rather see our President fight and lose than cave in.”
He is fighting—for the health-industrial complex. When he wanted the war supplemental, he threatened the Progressive Caucus with no re-election support. Have you heard any threats against the Blue (Lap) Dogs or the D half of the Gang of six?

Those among you who disdain emotional appeals still express your *belief* in Obama. That’s emotion, kids.

Obushma is not, and has not, been our friend: He is still on the wrong side of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and DOMA; he is still a big believer in state terrorism; he wants to create a preventive detention regime under “law” (although that, of course, is impossible under the Constitution); If you folks didn’t pay attention during the campaign, go back and read comment 16.

Obama was never the great black hope. He was the great white one.

and @ 56
People on the left have been proposing various plans that are all better than Obushma’s, whatever that is, since he has never actually proposed a solid, knowable plan.

As to one that will pass Congress, you act as though the president has no power. Untrue, as the Progressive Caucus knows too well. He has done nothing to make a case for a public option, and, of course, he never supported single payer, which is easy to explain (Medicare for all) and provides better health outcomes at less than half of what the US pays per capita.

Your challenge to the rest of us to stop attacking Obama, as though he must compromise, as though he must suck up to Conrad, Baucus, et al, is utter nonsense. Your arguments are as sensible as the Republicans’, that is to say, not at all.

The idea that Obama gives a crap about progressives is another instance of emotion outweighing reality. Obama seems to be another Bill Clinton in his politics and his methods.

From before the election on until now, he has done nothing to stand up for progressive values. The “resignation” of Van Jones is another example of a person who has no values and no desire for real change.

The only good thing that came out of his election so far is that the country actually elected a person of color.

“Obama began his about face in January.”

Obama began his about face much earlier: certainly no later than his vote for telecom immunity after promising to filibuster that bill.

“the change I was thrilled to finally be able to believe in.”

People on the left must give up “believing” and start paying attention to reality. When evaluating “our” candidates, that is of prime importance.

If people were not so busy believing in Obama, they might have put more pressure on him within the campaign to do the right thing. If all your front-line volunteers threaten to leave, it might tend to focus your politics.

“the President’s plan (yes, he does have one, it’s no more excluding people with pre-existing conditions, subsidies for the poor to buy insurance, reducing co-pays, a public option trigger, and an employer mandate)”

The problem is that the plan you describe is only the plan of the moment. It had included a public option and negotiated drug prices, among other things.

A plan that changes without notice as the planner gives away more and more, is not a real plan.

But, let’s look at his promises from the campaign:
*Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices.
*Allow imported prescription drugs
*Allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S.
*In non-competitive markets, force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care
*In markets where the insurance business is not competitive, “force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration.”
*Strengthen antitrust laws to prevent overcharging for malpractice insurance
*Strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance.
*Hold hospitals and health plans accountable for disparities in care
*Require health care providers to report preventable medical errors
*Require health plans to disclose how much of the premium goes to patient care
*Require providers to report measures of health care costs and quality
*Require that health plans utilize disease management programs
*Provide easy-to-understand comparisons of the Medicare prescription drug plans

There has been no action on any of these promises, and some of them are explicitly out of the so-called “plan.”

Your statements don’t hold up to examination.

Not at all, you’re just totally dishonest. I never challenged anyone to stop attacking Obama. Again, consider him Osama bin Hitler. It’s idiotic, but just do it anyway, so we can move past it and talk about the real issue which I raised and you dodged.

Propose a legislative strategy to get more health care reforms out of the Senate than Obama has. If you cannot, then I think a sane person would say that maybe he shouldn’t oppose a strategy that he cannot improve upon.

No, the problem is that I have continually issued a challenge to find a better legislative strategy to get more reforms past the Senate, and everyone (including yourself) has blatantly dodged this challenge.

As for the list you mention, your list does not include any mention that those items would be part of a plan for 2009. Where does it say that those reforms could not be done in 2011? No dates are listed. As such, it is your statements which do not hold up to examination.

Funny, I never bought into Obama’s massive marketing campaign. Instead, I researched his voting records and history myself-I didn’t just accept what his website and MSM were trying to shove down my throat. Anyway, I didn’t like what I saw at all. His behavior in office was 100 percent predictable.

In the September issue of Harper’s Magazine, David Osachy of Winter Park, Fla., is quoted as follows:

. . . “I find Kevin Baker’s musings on the psychohistory of our thirty-first and forty-fourth presidents entirely credible [’Barack Hoover Obama,’ Essay, July]. Those of us who ‘grew up as . . . outsider[s] and overcame formidable odds’ to obtain an elite education and professional success did so at the cost of internalizing wholesale the values and world-view of our fellow ’strivers and achievers.’ How else could we have come to believe that we beelong in their ranks?

Surely, then, it should be no great surprise that our new president has, to date, politely declined to offer a serious challenge to the same corporate and institutional forces that decades ago admitted him to their ranks, with (as always) the proviso that he become one of them. Unlike Herbert Hoover, Bill Clinton, and Obama, the to-the-manner-and-manor-born FDR suffered from no such identity crisis and the personal insecurities it tends to engender. The surprise is not that Obama is on the fast road to betraying the radical reformist aspirations that his upbringing and racial background might suggest. It is that anyone who has been paying attention could expect Obama to do anything other than, in Baker’s fine phrase, move the country ‘prudently, carefully, reasonably toward disaster’ – in other words, to offer us more of the same.”

Would replacing Rahm make a difference? Only if you believe in Tinkerbell.

Yes, well— from my perspective, the sooner American progressives realize they can’t fix the country by electing a President, the better. It’s going to take, at the very least, a series of painful general strikes before we get the government reforms we need.

I’m not sure what an “emotional truth” is exactly, except it’s probably not the truth.

Otherwise, I agree that they are about to over-compromise, capitulate to the right wing and leave us with a bucket of warm spit for health care reform.

Now, to be fair, it’s harder for Democrats to live up to the promises they made to their base because doing so involves crossing powerful DC interests. Only rubes and dupes believe those promises, which are only intended to get the individuals in Club Democrat into power.

After that, those promises are like yesterday’s Kleenex but discarded more rapidly.

I’ve already quit the Dem Party proper and focus all of my giving and activism as far away from the party as possible. Through groups like Act Blue. I’m not welcome in Club Democrat!

I have been trying to walk away from this party since Dean lost in 04. I am glad it is your moment of truth because it will finally be mine. Unlike you, I never trusted him; and the deliberate appeal to you emotions that you describe is exactly why.

I have to agree. It is about time American “liberals” realized they can’t fix the country by electing a President or more or better Democrats.