If Congress were trying to design a humane and sustainable national health system, two of the many features it would need would be (1) a means to ensure everyone would receive needed health care and (2) that the cost of achieving this universal health coverage was allocated fairly across those who could afford to pay it. The Max Baucus’ proposal achieves neither.
A basic difficulty in designing such a system is that the cost of providing care to different people does not match up to their ability to contribute to its costs. People who are very poor can also be very sick; and older people will tend to have much higher costs on average than younger people, but their relative average incomes might not match that difference in health needs.
Key relevant provisions of Baucus’ bill [pdf] are called "Rating Rules for the Individual Market" (pages 1-2). These rules apply to people who would be required to purchase insurance in the exchange and define how much more the insurers could charge some individuals compared to others:
Issuers in the individual market could vary premiums
based only on the following characteristics: tobacco use, age, and family composition. Specifically, premiums could vary no more than the ratio specified for each characteristic: Tobacco use – 1.5:1
Age – 5:1
Family composition:
o Single – 1:1
o Adult with child – 1.8:1
o Two adults – 2:1
o Family – 3:1Premiums could also vary among, but not within, rating areas to reflect geographic differences. States would define geographic rating areas. Taking together all permissible risk factors,
premiums within a family category could not vary by more than a 7.5:1 composite ratio.
This is what Wendell Potter (see video), who testified before a House health forum, is calling "benefit design flexibility." What this is saying is that if you are age 46-64, your premiums could be up to five times (5:1) higher than those age 21-45. And If you lived in a higher risk location, the total factor could be 7.5:1, or seven and a half times higher than the younger, lower risk group. Is this fair? Consider this.
The rationale for charging older people more is simple. Older people typically have higher health care costs, so they are riskier and thus more expensive to insure. A typical person aged 18 to 24 incurs $1,441 in annual health care expenses, according to Kaiser Family Foundation research. The annual tally for someone between 45 and 64 is more than three times that: $4,863.
So even if the principle we adopted were that we should charge broad groups according to the relative risks/costs of their care at different ages, a factor of 3:1 might be fair for some differences, but the 5:1 ratio Baucus proposes wouldn’t be fair for that same age difference. Of course, if the high risk group were more narrowly focused on the oldest (and riskiest) in that group (e.g., 59-64), then a higher ratio might apply.
But notice where Max is going with this logic. He’s saying the older you get, the more we should allow insurance companies to charge relative to younger people, and the more we should force consumers to pay. But when people get to 65, a completely different principle applies. People with Medicare who have been paying into the system through their working years now receive full coverage for a nominal premium (e.g., about $100/month), which is far less than the cost of their care. And people who are still working contribute to paying for their Medicare costs, and they will in turn receive that benefit when they reach Medicare age. It’s a completely different principle of fairness and collecting revenues to cover health costs.
So the very first question that needs to be asked about Max Baucus mandatory premium proposal is why should we impose a cost-based premium structure on those under but approaching 65 and a completely different premium structure on those 65 and older? Which is the fairer principle, and how should we balance between the two?
The core political problem we’re seeing is one I talked about a couple of months back when I argued that even if our corrupt political system won’t allow us to have single payer or "Medicare for all" health care system, we should examine the principles underlying single payer to help us think about what the criteria for judging what the next best — and I’m using the terms loosely — health reform proposals should try to achieve. In that system, everyone would receive the basic health care they need, and most of the costs of the system would be collected through a tax system premised on ability to pay, not on the difference in group treatment costs.
That is, the "premiums" (i.e. taxes) would be based on progressive principles that we use for taxing people. When you’re trying to achieve "affordability," as Congress and the White House claim they are, that’s the principle that should apply.
Max Baucus has gone a long ways in the opposite direction. Even when you add in the federal subsidies that would be provided to those within 300 percent of the federal poverty level, Baucus is still trying to base the "tax" allocation for a health care system on how much it costs to treat people in different classes — especially age and where they live — rather than on how much it’s fair to ask them to pay based on income and ability to pay.
The Senate HELP and House Committee Bills follow the same principle, but they soften its effects, by lowering the ratios — the age differential can’t be more than 2:1 — and by increasing the subsidies and lowering the out-of-pocket limits. Those are all worthwhile improvements relative to Baucus, making the House and HELP bills much better bills, but they’re still stuck in the wrong framework.
Proposed health care legislation would forbid insurers from charging sick people more or rejecting them outright. But by allowing insurers to charge so much more for older, often sicker people, “You’re just using age as a proxy for health status,” said Uwe Reinhardt, an economics professor at Princeton University. He estimates that Senator Baucus’s age-rating plan would allow insurers to cover roughly 70 percent of the additional risk they’d take on by being required to accept all comers, regardless of health. . . .
Beyond the question of affordability is one of philosophy. Without special rules, everyone agrees that younger people, who are generally more healthy than their elders, would end up shouldering a disproportionate share of health care costs. But maybe that’s exactly what they should do, some argue, knowing that when they get older they’ll benefit from that arrangement.
Dr. Reinhardt, for one, thinks this attitude is unlikely to take hold. “Americans are basically just a group of people sharing the same geography,” he said. “We don’t have a sense of social solidarity.”
One other point. The President, Baucus and Olympia Snowe want to extract the new revenues needed only from "within the current health system," which means we somehow extract savings from Medicare without risking benefit cuts or tax health insurance or other aspects of the sector. But this is a perverse idea.
We don’t think of paying the basic costs of Medicare that way. Instead, we have payroll taxes that don’t even apply to everyone, supplemented by general revenues — the progressive tax system. There’s nothing wrong with supplementing that with a surtax on the very wealthy to help get us to universal health care, and the White House is wrong to oppose that.
And the new premiums Americans would be forced to pay under the individual mandate are not coming from "within the health system." They’re coming out of the pockets of the currently uninsured. The "within the system" rule is just misleading gibberish to keep people from thinking about what’s really going on.





83 Comments
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About The Seminal
Advanced search
Just scream NO to all of the Baucus bill. There is no good faith here… focusing on it, pretending we can bargain with these people and this bill as a starting point is a recipe for disaster.
I’m thru with these guys. Not sure what to do next but completely certain what not to do.
What a complete waste of time, energy, and hope. I no longer trust these people to do the right thing but instead trust them to NOT look out for the people who elected them.
Done. Finished. Over. Out.
Kill the bill
I have pretty much given up on posting anything on the ‘reform’ of medical care until I see what comes out of the Conference Committee that is charged with effectively integrating the House and Senate legislation.
And yet, to call attention to the political misdeeds of Senator Baucus is to render to him a compliment for ill-repute and political malpractice.
Jaango
Please forgive this drive-by OT, but the leader in the clubhouse of the “Weasel of The Day” contest goes to Snarlin’ Arlen:
How pathetic is this guy?
He’ll do or say anything, anything to stay in The Club.
Must be a nice job if whoring out yourself in broad daylight is what it takes to keep it.
Anyone who votes for this jellyfish of a politician ought to have their head examined.
Jell-O Jay grows a spine, says he won’t vote for MaxTax Bill:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..aucus-Bill
By the way, the MaxTax Beta, aka RomneyCare, is falling apart in Massachusetts even as we speak: http://www.boston.com/business….._in_rates/
Yup, same general principles in all the bills. hence, none are worthy of support. What a truly pathetic effort.
Maybe, just maybe, this political move by Arlen will move Sestak away from his love of the Massachusetts model.
Well, at least someone says it should be on the table.
With one public entity paying providers for all of the health care needs of all Americans, risk pools would become moot.
Risk is a profit discussion. That is to say, it is an irrelevant discussion in the context of people’s health care needs.
What no rating based on race Asians and Hispanics live longer and Hispanics tend to have less healthcare than Asians both groups should pay less!
The GOP is all for racial profiling unless it affects them and means they should pay more!
I’m sure Scalia and Clarence Thomas will agree with me if this ever goes to court, oh wait their anti race base preference record only works for Whites!
Getting back to the topic at hand, anytime I read “subsidies” the hair stands up on the back of my neck, because those “subsidies” are most often nothing but pass throughs to the pockets of the insurance companies.
Real reform should bring premiums down to where most people can afford it, and if you can’t after that, then you should be allowed entry into Medicare or Medicaid.
Why are there no blogs about the recent ACORN news on FDL?
It’s over. The doctor’s don’t want it.
New Investor’s Business Daily poll of more than 1,300 physicians finds that nearly two-thirds (65%) don’t back ObamaCare, more than 70% say the government cannot provide insurance coverage for 47 million additional people and save money without harming quality, and 45% of doctors say they “would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement” if the liberal health care plan passes.
http://newsbusters.org/
Another nicely written comment. Thanks.
The hurdle America’s political class seems unable, like Michelle Malkin in her cheerleading outfit, to jump is that private insurer’s notions of risk/profit are unsuitable in a public plan, and lead to greater harms. They must be priced as if everyone were in a group plan and paid the same flat or percentage amount.
One reason per person insurance costs, which fund European health care systems, are low is that they are not risk adjusted per individual, like an individual life policy. Premiums are treated like a tax on income, like Social Security taxes. Not all European systems are the same; the French and Dutch models, for example, are quite different from the English and Canadian models, but they are all very different than the American model.
Premiums are simply the constant stream of dollars that pays for current total health care needs plus costs of administration. Adjusting individual premiums based on individual or group (eg, elderly) risk destroys the pooled character of the insurance – and creates an additional opportunity for profit.
It also creates substantial inequities. Allowing privates to charge the elderly five times the “base” rate charged the young and healthy will bankrupt many of them. It will come as no surprise to those with parents, siblings and friends that those past fifty-five are also past their prime income earning years. Some are already living on little more than Social Security. Which means that this plan is a way to shove the private insurers hands deeper into the deep pockets of Uncle Sam, less to pay for care than to shore up threatened profits.
Baucus’ plan, which the White House presumably endorses, insures industry profits. It increases access to health care only a fraction and lowers health care costs not at all. Why should it be taken seriously, much less used as a lever to fight more credible plans? Because it’s a way to give the insuresters two seats at the negotiating table, while keeping progressives from entering the room.
Harsh words won’t stop Blue Dog ‘Bama from subsidizing insuresters as he has banks. Persistent constructive pressure would be a better start. So far, it’s hard to take Obama seriously that he has any interest in credible health care reform beyond the color of the booklets designed to sell it.
Mornin’ Scarecrow and Firedogs -
major healthcare stocks have all* moved up a point since Faucus started speaking on the teevee. will have to check at close
*Coventry is trending down – but they have been downgraded by Goldman (think there’s a major shareholder action goin’ on)
Don’t mess with Acorn!
Nice. Let us assume that the individual insurance rate for a healthy young adult won’t change much from the $500 a month it is now. That would indicated that health insurance for a couple aged 55-65 (IOW, me) would be $5000 a month. (2 adults, individual policies.)
That’s way over 13% of our income. We don’t even take that much home.
If I felt he actually believed that, I’d take comfort in his comment as well.
Do you at least get paid for this stuff?
Max’s plan seems dead in the water no GOP support despite months of negotiation/bending over and even some Senate Dems are already against it.
Max negotiated with the GOP to get a plan that some GOPers would support if the GOP won’t support Max after all his compromises well we are forced to pass Healthcare sans GOP.
So lets get a new plan that we like:)
Yet astroturfers are still screaming about socialism. Yeah, the Democrats will kill them with this bill and even if they don’t, their newly-empowered HMO’s will finish the job. But socialism? Uh uh.
Stoopid. No other words suffice. Not “ignorant” or “misinformed” but just plain old “stoopid.”
Feel free write one.
The bottom line is that it’s OUR money. They are spending it on 2 wars, bailing out the rich, mountains of pork and feathering their own nests. They act as if it’s THEIR money and that they get to decide if we are worthy enough to get some of it. What a joke this whole thing has become – except it’s not funny.
Perhaps the loudest voice Obama could hear would be to start receiving envelopes full of the remnants of peeled off Obama stickers.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
Free medical!
That’s the first time I’ve wished i owned a sticker. *s
This is so transparent, one must conclude that the proposal under review here is meant only to banjax the entire initiative and maintain the status quo ante. It’s in line with the pr instigated wingnutteriness (as exemplified by Sambot), but perhaps more subtle.
The IBD is a right wing hack fest read their editorial page they are to the right of the WallStreet Journal. Ever since Clinton and the tech boom ads left the IBD has lost so much ad revenue the paper has gotten so small and light deliver drivers despair porch landings in a slight windstorm.
I used to deliver that paper.
Also, the Baucus plan prohibits any insurance policy which might be sold with government subsidies (or tax credits, I presume) from including any coverage for any abortion procedure at all.
Even an abortion which is necessary to save a woman’s life. They would rather kill women. Even an abortion for a 10 year old child who was raped.
This is disgusting.
Something else this plan fails to recognize is the changing nature of the jobs marketplace. Fewer companies are providing health insurance. Fewer workers are employed by larger companies. Many have been forced to become self-employed and/or to work in the barter economy. Age, health, credit score and other illegal factors are routinely being used to deny employment. As a result, traditional health care insurance, with its skyrocketing premiums, is simply in another reality, a completely unaffordable commodity. The modest level of assurance that having such insurance brings is becoming a pipedream; it’s being replaced by a “daymare” of constant risk, disrupting families and taking its toll on children as well as parents.
Max Baucus’ plan wrenches those workers back into the private health insurance system and yanks from their meager paychecks premiums for unreformed insurance products that it would be criminal to issue in Europe (because their loopholes and exclusions and virtual unenforceability make them fraudulent products).
Max Baucus is as much of a fraud as the insurance products he is trying to force on us. If Uncle Sam is going to put his long-fingered hands into our pocketbooks, taking part of our paychecks before we get them, he has an obligation to make what we’re paying for worthwhile, a program that solves problems rather than makes them worse. This plan doesn’t do that.
I think the Market is betting that nothing passes. Max’s plan would be great for them, If everyone has to buy health insurance it should be good for them depending on the rates they get to charge.
September is the worse month for stocks historically don’t ask me why I think the GOP wants to pin a market downturn if it happens on the possibility of health care passing.
I think we should delay a vote past September to avoid the jinx.
I admit to great frustration with the whole healthcare debate when each week I am presented with a new idiot plan. Thank you for doing the analysis that I don’t have the patience to do. What is so irritating about the Baucus plan is that it violates common sense ideas about funding that have been around for years. Insurance coverage and premiums went out of control decades ago when some companies were allowed to cherrypick a younger, healthier clientele, leaving other insurers with the choice of holding on to an older, sicker less profitable population or to follow their competitors to a race to the bottom. The result was prices shot up and denying coverage or rescinding it became standard practice. Insurance companies ended up wanting only those who could pay for coverage but not use it.
The Baucus plan as you note simply takes us further in this direction. Rather than spreading risk (and costs) across the population it concentrates them precisely in that grouping least able to afford them. As attaturk said this morning of waiting for the Baucus plan, that is 6 months I will never get back.
The Baucus plan highlights the fact yet again that this debate was never about healthcare. It has always been about insurance and insurers.
As I said I have gotten so tired of these so called Senate and House “experts” whether on healthcare, finance, national security, or whatever who plainly and simply don’t know what they are talking about. There is not a problem our country faces to which there are not reasonable, workable solutions, but our political elites take precisely these off the table and then ask, “So what’s left?” Can we be surprised at how dysfunctional and non-functioning all facets of our government and economy have become with such an attitude?
Poll asked: Do you support or oppose proposed healthcare plan?
Are you saying that since IBD initiated the poll that it can’t be trusted?
If that’s true then all the MSM’s polls would fall in the same category.
realistically that is how all insurance works; car insurance based on where you live and your driving record; life insurance based on your age and health; geez, even your hoped for interest rate is based on your credit rating. we all pay to play.
the problem is it is all good for the insurance companies whose motto is “all profit, no risk.”
baucus and his gang of six, the gop and blue dog democrats are terrorist holding the country hostage. i guess i am becoming as rabid as those on the far right who yell and scream, “he’s a socialist, nazi, communist, fascist muslim, not born in the country.”
Maybe its time to start being the LOUD MAJORITY, Jam the line at WH and congress let them know what we want and don’t want and that they MUST write a good Public Option and be a member or buy their own health care at the highest premium rate that the insurance companies charge for ours.at their expense not ours.
I’m 60 years old. Under this wonderful pile of “reform” garbage, insurance that now costs $1,000 per month will now cost me $1,885 per month. If this is what we waited for, please let me keep waiting. 5:1 is the worst…well, there’s just not a word for it. I’ve been crying for hours and it just won’t stop. This is the first article I’ve seen that even addresses the age factor. It’s like no one cares that this will bankrupt people my age.
The federal employees benefit plan charges flat rates for insurance, not age rates. If everyone is required to buy insurance, the risk pool is much larger so why the age rates? Because the insurance companies want it and what they want, they get.
I wish I could make more sense but I’m just flattened right now. I cannot believe this.
I agree!! Besides if you are in the “Plan” some of that money is your money!! The right just havta force us to abide “Their” morals… Bullshit… what happened to separation of state and Religion when one religious CULT can force their views on the rest of us… slippery slope coming up/down…
Obama-Undocumented Worker
Of course, after the baby is born, the mom is on her own, unless she’s fabulously wealthy in which case she gets a tax break.
The lines are already jameed. It took me two hours to get through and that was with me steadily redialing.
If anyone would like to join, Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is up: “RedState Fundraising Drive for Wingnut Senatorial Candidates: Epic Fail”
Doesn’t the Baucus plan also state that the laws of the state in which the insurance company is located shall prevail. Shades of CITI Bank and SD.
Maybe she should keep her legs crossed.
The modest level of assurance that having such insurance brings is becoming a pipedream; it’s being replaced by a “daymare” of constant risk, disrupting families and taking its toll on children as well as parents.
See HufPro article on our own MaryMcCurnin
Who has to divorce her husband so they can survive!! Just a great system we have…
phones are off the hook
“One other point. The President, Baucus and Olympia Snowe want to extract the new revenues needed only from “within the current health system,” which means we somehow extract savings from Medicare without risking benefit cuts or tax health insurance or other aspects of the sector. But this is a perverse idea.”
–
God forbid the leaders don’t see the obvious opportunity cost getting beaten out of this system. Get the money from waste no matter where it is. It is sick to say we can have trillions for war and nothing for peace.
In fact the entire argument and numbers looks like a big pile of stupid – since the only way to clear up the numbers is single payer.
The majority of doctors back the public option.
Stuff Baucus in a smoky back room somewhere and pass a bill with a public option already.
You would say that to a 12 year old gang-rape victim? Nice morals you got there.
Yes I am saying it can’t be trusted I am not saying all the media can’t be trusted but right and left some media is biased the IBD editorial page is biased on business they are ok but I prefer the FT Financial Times for news the IBD does have great one stop stock checking and easy to understand information.
I didn’t say anything about a 12 year old. But the one you refer to wasn’t in America.
The poll questions for people that already have health insurance and target people needs to be re-focused.
The questions should be about how happy people are with their coverage when they need to USE it. Also about the future projections (if insurance premiums increase at the current rate and you are paying x% more in y years then….).
The guy that had gallstones and did not know about it, got that called a pre-existing condition – and got murdered by spreadsheet might have been OK with his coverage before he knew what he was going to need it for.
Or the woman who has insurance now might be happy – but what if she becomes pregnant and loses her job and insurance and has a pre-existing condition to private insurace corps?
The arguments people and the media use are a joke. Once you are armed with information spotting these misleading items (in the media) and misdirection is very easy – its also unsettling since its so clear how bad the system is geared.
Here’s a good article on the topic of Senator Baucus…
“maybe she should have kept her legs crossed”.
I’m not talking about any particular 12 year old rape victim who is pregnant. There are, most unfortunately, dozens of those in the US every year. The Baucus bill would forbid any insurance coverage for an abortion for her. No private insurance, no medicaid.
The Baucus abortion exclusion also forbids any insurance coverage for an abortion when a woman is going to die from the pregnancy.
We’re a fragmented society, and conservatives and the businesses they run have exploited the fragmentation, such as the fragmentation of age groups, for profit and worsened it. Investment companies have tried, with some success, to convince young people that Social Security and Medicare will not be there for them (which means, of course, that they should try to earn a lot of money as quickly as possible and put it into high risk investments with, of course, one of the same investment companies). They have charts meant to persuade people that they will be paupers unless they have huge amounts of money invested in their company. They promote the conservative “you’re on your own” philosophy” with relish because they profit from it, and I think that probably extends to health care and many other areas. The recipient of the propaganda then feels like “why contribute to the common good when you know you are just going to get screwed?”
If you see a train wreck coming, shuldn’t you get out of the way?
With the government projecting shortfalls in both SS and Medicare you
would be neglgent not to build up a nest egg for the future.
one of 535 members of congress who has been bought and paid for by the insurance companies. Of the 534 remaining, how many are clean?(I don’t ask how many of the others are dirty because I believe that the vast majority in congress are in fact corrupt) How many have not had their votes bought and paid for? My guess would be at least 98% of congress is corrupt.
This is NOT THE FINAL BILL! This is a step in the process. Walk away now and you hand them victory!
Stay and fight!
The Senate can pass whatever garbage bill it wants, it still goes to conference with the House. Reconciliation route will be the next step from there.
Stay in the fight! It is not over!
The public option only dies if we let it. This will be a Democratic law. Baucus could not bring a single Republican with him.
The ’cause’ for compromise has disappeared. Now the focus should be on writing the bill that Democrats and progressives want.
Now is not the time to walk away. Now is the time to ramp up the fight.
If they pass the bill without the repubs you will have the biggest march on Washington ever. I’m guessing 5 million plus.
“If you see a train wreck coming, shuldn’t you get out of the way?”
You might consider joining your community members in fixing the railroad.
We’ll see what makes it out of Conference Committee, if anything does. If this is the best the Dem party leadership is politically willing to do (whie having a Dem president & Dem majorities in both Houses), the bill should be killed, & they should start fearing 2010 elections…
Oh right if the “People” get a Public option without the Repukes there will be 5 million marching on Washington.. Maybe but it will be all the insurance executives marching and not the people who would finally have affordable decent health care and not more of the same that the Repukes want!! Talk about CLASS WARFARE!!
The majority of doctors support a public option exponentially more robust than what HR 3200 or the Senate HELP bill offers. For more, see here.
It can’t be emphasized too frequently that the public option as pitched by Howard Dean and others, and as polled in the NEJM poll (ie, some variation on “giving people under 65 the free choice of a Medicare-like plan”), bears NO relation to the weak, delayed, highly restricted, and un-Medicare-like option on offer in current legislation.
Senate Finance Committee – 13 Dems, 10 Rep – total 23 – 50% of 23 is 11.5
Twelve votes defeats this bill.
Republicans have stated that they will not vote for it. 10 votes gone.
It takes two Democrats voting against it to stop it.
We know that Jello Jay has said he will not vote for it.
What other Democrats won’t vote for it?
The key will be in the amendments that are passed during markup.
My guess is that the Republicans will pass on the opportunity to gum up the works by voting the bill out; it would have their fingerprints on it in the off chance it should pass and be signed.
responding to comment #35:
You begin your comment with a false premise. All insurance may use qualifiers to determine rate . . . but unlike other “insurables”–healthcare is not–or should not be–thought of as a commodity. As long as this logic is allowed to permeate the argument, healthcare will be treated the same as a house, or a car, or personal property. But if my house burns down (as long as I’m not in it), and the insurer does not honor his commitment . . . I can live in a tent, an apartment or under a bridge. Likewise, if I total my car, I can walk, take public transportation, bike, or drive a cheap clunker. However, if I can’t get cancer treatment when I need it; if I can’t afford my diabetes management tools/insulin each and every month; if I can’t get an anti-venom injection after a snakebite . . . I cannot recover. I only have one body; I only have one life. Healthcare and medical treatment are NOT like other commodities where insurers determine the risk/reward of providing coverage.
For what it’s worth Nate Silver questions the validity of the IBD/TIPP Doctors Poll.
Going by Baucas’ community ratings, a 65-year-old smoker with a family would be paying a premium about 22 times that of a normal, desirable insurance client. That sounds about right.
People scroll and call. You had nine opportunities to scroll and call.
And sex…males have noticeably lower life expectancies and more health care problems before the 65 Medicare cut-off. Where’s the actuarial measure for them?
Once again Mad Max fails to represent his almost 970,000 constituents and shafts the American people royally. He may we have screwed the pooch with Montana voters on this one, but he still has 5 more years and may well bag it and go to work directly for the insurance companies after this term (my current theory about why he seems to be actively trying to destroy his career here in Montana).
No…such things NEVER happen in America….
-11 Year Old Gang Raped
Using figures from your tea party march, “5 million” would be more like 200,000. That’s almost enough to make me (and the D leadership) notice (the ACTUAL figures for the march on 9/12 is 50-70K, not 1.7 million that SOME fools claim – that’s almost as many people as go to a decent rock concert or a football game!).
I’m counting 12!
Kinda like that “Million Man March” a few years back.
Not pregnant.
I am opposed to this horrible bill. Is there a good analysis of the Widen bill someone can recommend for reading? Is there a comparison of the Widen/Baucus/Kennedy bills?
65 year old would be on Medicare.
So that’s, what, 50,000 people in actual numbers?
I understand your feelings and think that we’ve fooled around with this issue for far too long. Ordinary poor and middle class people really need to get very dogmatic about this. There’s only one solution that’s really good for us and that is Medicare for All. In my view any politician who doesn’t vote for HR 676 or a similar bill should be opposed by us in the next election with all we have. These people have been playing with our lives and our livelihoods for far too many years now and we have tolerated their accepting contributions from insurance companies and voting against our interests. It has to end now. No more tolerance and forbearance for the insurance industry. No more voting based on the person or multiple issues. If people vote against our interests on this one we have gpt to defeat them.
Yes, it is. So let’s fight by forgetting about any compromise and going back to Medicare for All. If we can’t get that through because it won’t fit under reconciliation, then let’s use this strategy. By the time we get through the first two steps, the insurance companies will be begging us to get them off the hook.
Perhaps people are too upset to scroll or call. In your case you are either being paid well to make these comments. Or you simply enjoy watching people suffering. I would be interested to know which it is, and why.
There’s actually a simple solution to all of this madness that would end the cause of having people like Max in the Senate to begin with: Pass a Constitutional Amendment (a law would probably get struck down) to require all federal Senate and House campaigns to be funded 100% by some type of government fund which is created solely for the purpose of funding federal campaigns. In other words, outlaw all contributions from EVERYONE (to keep the parties from accusing each other of having an unfair advantage). All money would come from this fund.
Sadly, their are 2 hurdles:
1. The “tax phobia” of the people would prevent such a thing from ever happening, even though we would have Senators/Congresspeople who represent ONLY the common people, rather than unions or corporations, or some other interest group. We would have to somehow “deconstruct” this phobia among the masses.
2. A simple law passed by Congress for this would be struck down by the Supremes using one or more of the following as grounds for unconstitutionality: 1st Amendment (free speech), 10th Amendment (States’ rights), and 14th Amendment (contains a provision for corporate “personhood” which gives them the same free speech rights as individual citizens), which is absolute rubbish. So a Con Am would be required. And a Con Am would require ratification by 38 States… pretty tough.
But if it were to happen, we would have a Congress which is DIRECTLY accountable to the people, not insurance companies.
They avoid using the pure community rating as a means to keep premiums stable – not variable based on characteristics, such as health, age or gender. Rather, it’s concerned with the risk the industry takes on and how to compensate them for their efforts. The discussion on pricing indexes and the ratio bands that are used to determine the cost of insuring a person sounds more like gaming theory than it does health care reform.